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[Music]

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so

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and i'm excited about another kind of

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sciency type show

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i have dr greg matloff on and he

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is going to be talking about his book

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which i got in the mail

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a month ago i thought for sure i'd have

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plenty of time to read it i've just been

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very very busy i started reading it and

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i

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dyson uh swarm stapleton dyson swarm

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of alien space habitats within our

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solar system's kuiper belt that's way

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out there if you don't know but it's

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pretty far

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they have i forget exactly what it's

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called i'm going to ask him but

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it has to do with the distance between

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us and the sun which i know is something

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like 92 million miles

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and 100 some odd kilometers anyway

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that's

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uh the kuiper belt is i believe several

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several of those out there um

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and it takes a long time to get there

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but um

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it it really is a fascinating book i

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mean i learned so much in the

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beginning of what i was reading

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and he is a uh greg is a

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leading expert in the possibilities for

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interstellar propulsion especially the

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near

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sun solar sail trajectories and uh

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as you know a couple weeks ago we had dr

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avi loeb uh that

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talked a bit about the sailor i mean the

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uh solar sails in the

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well actually it's kind of sale

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technology with

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lasers and and things like that in this

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uh

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i hope you do get a chance to read his

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bio it's it's like a book

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and um that will be in our show notes

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and also

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i do believe that it is in the

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description in youtube

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um well uh as far as this week's blog

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it's uh ufos and astronauts and uh

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if you are part of the podcast feed

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you'll see that i

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i posted an old interview i did with

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um the fourth man on the moon um

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astronaut alan

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bean i did that back in 2009 but he's a

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wonderful man i hope you if you haven't

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listened to it

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it's in the podcast feed it's all also

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in youtube

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uh what a great attitude um that

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gentleman had

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uh especially when it comes to what

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people believe about

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conspiracies that no one landed on the

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moon

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and you know all that uh it's a fun

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podcast i hope you had a chance to

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to check that out so uh that

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that ufos and astronauts blog kind of

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goes with that now alan did

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was part of a very unusual sighting in

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skylab too i believe was 1973.

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can't find a lot of information about

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that but i did talk to him a little bit

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about that a few years ago and

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um he was not interested in coming on

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the show about that

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uh next week we have frank fischino

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i was coming on to talk about the

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unusual

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flatwoods monster case that happened way

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back

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he's written a book on that it's a very

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interesting and weird

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very strange case and so

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uh if you go on our website you'll see

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that i have some pictures from people

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all

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you listen to the show and you want to

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send a picture that represents yourself

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or uh the the area in which you live and

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just a first name and location

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i will post it on that page there's

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quite a few in there now from

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all the way from iraq to uh

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all over the world so anyway it's kind

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of fun to to check that out

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and uh the email address i have for that

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is gps

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at podcastufo.com and

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also it is on the website if you're over

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on the website

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also you can see how to support the show

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if you don't and

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you'd like to for as little as two

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dollars a month

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anything helps and i do appreciate every

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single listener

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and i appreciate every single supporter

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so uh that's it for all my blabbing i'm

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going to bring in

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my guest now welcome to the show greg

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hello martin it's lovely to be here

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thank you so much

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for having me yes you're very welcome

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and um

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uh what uh i guess i'm i'm gonna ask you

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to start out with um in the beginning

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when you were young growing up was

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was astronomy and this this type of

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thing something you had a fascination

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with

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my parents made a bad mistake

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for my 13th birthday they gave me a

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telescope

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oh a three and a half inch or

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skye skyscope it was a newtonian

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reflector

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and i began to spend initially we were

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living in

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we had an apartment in lucky a house

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in williamsburg brooklyn later moved out

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to queens

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but also had a country house in the

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hamptons

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and when i was an adolescent everybody

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else in the hamptons of my age was

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trying to get the first base with the

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local girls out there

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and i would spend my nights instead

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going out looking at things like

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m13 you know any planets in the sky

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the moon and really having a great time

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and

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wonder

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where are they which of those little

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dots in the sky

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has advanced civilizations they might

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teach or something

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yeah yeah i've always i've i've i you

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know i was contemplating this

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before i wonder what the equivalent of

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the

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mean it's it's fascinating when you

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really think of it all

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and uh and the distances are are just

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you know i i've said this before in the

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show because i had an astrophysicist

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that said

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basically if the earth was in maryland

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and it was the size of a ball and a

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ballpoint pen

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you know that little teeny teeny ball um

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the first star would be in california

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you know so which is uh which is amazing

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when you really think about the distance

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and um and your your book um

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stellar um engineering and you talk

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about

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you know the possibility that

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intelligent life might

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build you know something enormous

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and like the diceman sphere the tabby

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star would you know the

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thoughts on what that was but i don't

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want to jump ahead so

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quickly um if you want to just fill in a

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little bit about

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um you decided to study astronomy and is

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is that how that all started

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you know after high school and all that

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well i knew that i was going to do

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something in astronomy

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i want a great student in high school

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basically

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the the guidance advisors tell my

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parents

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get them into a trade okay

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you're not going to make it in physics

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well wow

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but okay so what i did is i majored in

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physics

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and uh it was at queen's college which

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is a division

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of the city university and that was a

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pretty mediocre student but i was

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also an amateur astronomer my

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parents had a friend who was a

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technician

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at a small optical company in queens

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that was called colesman instruments

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they had built

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uh sextants in world war

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ii and later on star trackers

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for more advanced aircraft and

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spacecraft

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and they needed somebody either a

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bachelor

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degree person in physics with an

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interest in astronomy

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or a phd

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co-star and of course at that point

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i was i would have been paid six

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thousand dollars which was abortion back

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in 1965

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and the um astrophysicist's phd would

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have gotten paid about 20 000.

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so they decided to be um

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to read the bottom line and they hired

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me and i was able to get my first papers

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out

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in applied optics oh before i was 22.

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before you're 22 well i was 22. and

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what i did because it was the peak of

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the space program then it was very

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very advantageous for the companies to

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put you through for a master's degree

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so what i did is i went to nyu

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uptown new york university which had a

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bronx campus then

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to the engineering school the

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astronautics department

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and they initially didn't want to take

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me in because

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i didn't have great grades as an

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undergraduate and then they showed them

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my early papers and immediately

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they hired me wow and

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what i did you know i studied wonderful

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things uh planetary atmospheres

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solar system astrophysics a little bit

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of

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astro dynamics but i realized

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that i would rather

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do research than sit and take courses

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so i spoke to my advisor about he said

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oh i've come up with a research topic

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and i've read a book by a british

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physicist a guy named james strong the

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book is called flight to the stars

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and what he said is okay the best way we

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could do it now

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is with nuclear explosions fusion

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explosions

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that was freeman dyson uh and ted

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taylor's

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project orion and that's the best we

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could do at the present time

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so what we do is uh

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we know a certain fraction of the energy

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is going to come out

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in fusion particles of your exhaust

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but there's a lot of lost energy in

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gamma rays

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neutrons x-rays and he said you simply

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reflect this

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as photons and i looked at that and said

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no you don't that's not going to get you

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very much

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but you have to because photons have a

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low momentum instead you absorb it

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as heat you convert that heat to

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a to subsidiary ion propulsion and you

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can add a lot

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to your spacecraft speed so

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that was my thesis and my advisor loved

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it and he said by the way submit this to

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a journal

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and remember why i'm your thesis advisor

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i'm your co-author a little bit about

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00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:18,160
how academia works

287
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,680
right there the paper got out i'm very

288
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,200
happy about it and i didn't think

289
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:24,800
anything else about it

290
00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:28,240
and along come the night the early 1970s

291
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:30,800
i'm living communally and a woman in the

292
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:32,160
group comes up and says gee

293
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:35,120
i have a friend who is a congressional

294
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:38,160
aide in washington dc

295
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:39,680
and are you aware that you've been

296
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:42,079
written into the congressional record

297
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:45,519
i said what i mean but never that

298
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:48,160
radical what did i do

299
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:51,200
it's good check this out

300
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,360
and i went to this and i saw that a guy

301
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:55,279
named bob forward

302
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,079
who was a wonderful space scientist

303
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:00,959
unfortunately he died in the year 2000

304
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,760
but what he had done was he had been

305
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:05,360
asked to

306
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:08,880
write about what we could do

307
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:11,200
given an infinite budget with the space

308
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:12,399
shuttle when he talked about it

309
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,839
distiller travel

310
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:15,839
and he basically cited me and put one of

311
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:17,279
my figures in

312
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:20,639
so i became an expert without even

313
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:27,670
that's amazing yep that's wow

314
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:30,639
good for you to do all that and um as

315
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:32,240
far as

316
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:33,920
you know this you you have written

317
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,079
another book i saw that as well

318
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:38,079
and and how many books have you written

319
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:41,920
so far i believe there's 13.

320
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:45,519
okay counting the two books the artist

321
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:47,920
scientist books i did with my wife c

322
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,800
bangs

323
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:50,959
i think it's 13 and i don't i'm not

324
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:53,199
planning on writing anymore

325
00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:56,800
are you done but 13 is an unlucky number

326
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:02,320
you have to write one more yeah

327
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:07,120
uh wow uh 13 that's amazing and um

328
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:10,240
and so this one in particular um i

329
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:10,800
remember

330
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:14,240
somewhere reading in about um

331
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:16,000
there's a type of because i always

332
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,360
thought if there's something like

333
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:18,720
massive

334
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:21,920
in the uh anywhere built out there

335
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,720
i always think of materials where in on

336
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,240
earth

337
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:28,880
could they get the amount of materials

338
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:30,720
to build something as

339
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:33,519
you know that surrounds like a a solar

340
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,720
system type of thing

341
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:36,399
how is that even possible does it have

342
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:38,000
to do with very thin

343
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:41,360
molecule thick technology or something

344
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:43,839
okay well the people who really started

345
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:44,639
this off

346
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,600
was a british philosopher and science

347
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:50,160
fiction writer olaf stapleton

348
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:54,399
in his epic novel star maker in 1937

349
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:56,639
and then it was picked up by british

350
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:57,519
american

351
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:01,760
physicist freeman dyson in the year 1960

352
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:04,480
and dyson was interested in seti

353
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:06,079
searching for extraterrestrial

354
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,120
intelligence

355
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:08,800
but he wanted to look at it from a new

356
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:10,320
point of view he wanted to look at it

357
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:12,720
not from people beaming people

358
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:15,920
aliens beaming signals to us

359
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:24,310
rather than a radio beam something

360
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:26,240
called a techno signature

361
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:27,600
in other words you're looking at a

362
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:30,079
signature of an alien technology

363
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:33,440
and he said okay if somebody took apart

364
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:36,480
their big planets their equivalent

365
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:39,360
of jupiter and saturn put them together

366
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:40,079
in a

367
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,639
large basically a spherical shell

368
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,120
and had that spinning at the right speed

369
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:49,600
they could have one gravity on it

370
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:52,240
and um basically it could give them

371
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:53,519
tremendous amounts

372
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,320
of living space he realized there was

373
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:58,000
problems with this

374
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,480
and he realized that to do a complete

375
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,000
enclosure like that

376
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:04,639
probably wouldn't work because of the

377
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,199
different dynamics

378
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,800
i don't want to get technical in this

379
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:10,800
but there are two forces that balance in

380
00:16:14,629 --> 00:16:12,240
this thing

381
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,639
one is centripetal force centrifugal

382
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,639
force and one is gravity

383
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:18,720
and they're going to balance very nicely

384
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:20,000
at the

385
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,199
equator so there's a poles you're not

386
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,199
going to have much centrifugal force

387
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,360
so basically your thing is going to get

388
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:28,720
squashed down

389
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:32,639
unless it has enormous tensile strength

390
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,399
so probably you can't build a real shell

391
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,639
around the star unless you can have the

392
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:40,639
type of tensile strength material that

393
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:41,600
exists

394
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,519
inside atomic nuclei so along came

395
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:47,920
science fiction writers to look at this

396
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,399
larry niven and

397
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:52,560
i'm sure many of you people have read

398
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,199
him he's a very interesting guy also

399
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,040
what larry did is he came up with a

400
00:17:02,389 --> 00:16:59,279
concept called ring world

401
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:02,399
and he said okay you don't have

402
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:08,870
solid sphere but you have a ring around

403
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,600
the stars this is the star over here

404
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:14,160
the ring might go like this way around

405
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,079
near its equator

406
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,120
and if you design that right maybe life

407
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:21,839
could actually live in that fit vicinity

408
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,319
for billions of years

409
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,319
we had ringworld i believe he did it

410
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,400
with jerry cornell some of them but i'm

411
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:30,880
trying to remember i'll have to go back

412
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:33,200
and dig dig it out of my library which i

413
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:34,720
don't want to do right now

414
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:38,080
but people could check that wow um

415
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:41,440
yeah go ahead and the idea

416
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:44,400
laid sort of dormant for a while there

417
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:44,880
was

418
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:48,240
a guy i cite him in the book i knew him

419
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,120
for the

420
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,360
from the city groups at the

421
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:53,120
international astronautical

422
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:56,559
conferences and radio astronomer and he

423
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:56,960
looked

424
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:00,000
for infrared signatures from

425
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:03,840
stapled in dyson spheres in

426
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,240
basically our galactic vicinity he

427
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,160
didn't find any but

428
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:10,400
probably just because such things are

429
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,559
dynamically impossible

430
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:14,720
but he did make the the effort and i i

431
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:17,679
cite him and describe his work

432
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:21,200
it stayed pretty dormant until 1960.

433
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:25,360
i'm sorry until 2015

434
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:29,600
or 2016 17 i forget the exact date

435
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:33,600
when a young woman named tabby

436
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:36,320
boy boy hanyan are mispronouncing her

437
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,360
name

438
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:39,520
which is why the star is called happy

439
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:42,720
star and not the way hanyan

440
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,000
and the special properties of this star

441
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:48,160
were very intriguing and people have

442
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:49,919
seriously considered

443
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,200
that maybe it is a partial

444
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:55,919
stapled in dyson sphere and we can talk

445
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,080
about that as we go along

446
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,160
right i remember when that happened and

447
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,080
all the speculation and

448
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,720
the blowback of that speculation and all

449
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:06,480
that

450
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:09,919
one of the things i uh i couldn't

451
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,120
believe like in the first

452
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:13,520
few pages in your book you know you

453
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:14,880
think of the earth

454
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:17,520
as you know we get everything that

455
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,080
exists

456
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:19,919
has to do you know of course we have to

457
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:21,280
have water and everything else but the

458
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:21,919
sun

459
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:26,960
chop down a tree or burn wood

460
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:29,440
that is indeed the captured energy of

461
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:30,000
the sun

462
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:32,320
you know we all everything food you name

463
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:33,360
it everything

464
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:36,400
but to now i don't know the statistics

465
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,840
of what was in your book but it's

466
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,480
something like a fraction of a billionth

467
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:42,320
of the sun's energy

468
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:45,840
is what powers our earth yeah once again

469
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,520
the earth is 93 million miles or 150

470
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:50,880
million kilometers

471
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:54,320
from the sun it's one astronomical unit

472
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:57,679
the earth's radius is four thousand

473
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,480
miles

474
00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:01,360
it's around six thousand uh kilometers

475
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:02,080
you mean forty

476
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,000
forty thousand forty thousand miles four

477
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:06,240
thousand miles

478
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:09,840
so the diameter is around 8 000.

479
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:12,880
so you can think that it takes up a very

480
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:16,320
very very tiny fraction of its loop

481
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,679
around the sun

482
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:20,240
so so much of the of energy doesn't

483
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:21,280
strike us

484
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:23,120
and this is really what got that stapled

485
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:24,960
in and dyson later on

486
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:28,000
that it truly advanced civilization

487
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,679
might want to tap into more of that

488
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:32,080
energy

489
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:34,720
wow that just is that fascinates me

490
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:35,360
here's a

491
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,440
we do get questions in the chat and i

492
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:39,200
ask that if someone has a question for

493
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:40,480
you that they put it

494
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:43,520
in caps which uh this person did this

495
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,400
anonymous rex uh his question is can a

496
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:49,440
dyson sphere occur in nature

497
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:52,559
i don't think so i would hate to rule

498
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,480
anything out but i've never heard of any

499
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:56,640
way that it could be produced

500
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:00,320
naturally um but nature

501
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:02,720
is strange you can have all types of

502
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:04,960
things that we don't know about

503
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:08,080
that's right yeah like the um that came

504
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,039
through

505
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:12,080
that's a good example right there um

506
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,360
so if um if this

507
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:18,000
uh you know you talked earlier about

508
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:18,880
seti and the ra

509
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,679
radio signals and i've had uh dr seth

510
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:22,880
shaw stack on

511
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:25,600
i think three three times on this show

512
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:26,559
um

513
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:30,000
and you know uh at least they're

514
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:32,799
looking for something but i i think the

515
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:33,360
techno

516
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:36,320
signatures you know when we have the

517
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,799
ability to actually look for them

518
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,440
that's gonna be a lot more interesting

519
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,720
that's what i think i mean what do you

520
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:44,400
think about that i agree

521
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:47,679
we do have the ability now to look for

522
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:50,799
partial dyson stapled in spheres or

523
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:52,720
should we call them dyson stapled in

524
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:53,679
swarms

525
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:56,799
that might be better um

526
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:58,880
can you explain what that i'm sorry do

527
00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:59,919
you mind explaining what

528
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,240
the swarm the difference is okay and

529
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:03,760
this is something that dyson brought

530
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:04,640
about

531
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:08,799
the concept further

532
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:12,080
what it is is people realize building

533
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:15,600
a spherical shell around the star

534
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:18,559
might really not work but instead

535
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:19,200
there's

536
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:22,320
plenty of material around that star

537
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:24,240
and what you could do is you could

538
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:27,840
create a whole swarm of space habitats

539
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:30,159
now the space habitat idea goes back to

540
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,000
the early 1970s

541
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:34,159
a guy named jerry o'neal at princeton

542
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:35,200
university

543
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:38,080
and later on people at stanford nasa

544
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,080
ames and elsewhere

545
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:42,559
continued this and it was basically did

546
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:43,600
that demonstrate

547
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:47,840
that you could build artificial

548
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:50,720
little world lifts in space which we now

549
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,200
call

550
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:53,600
space habitats if it has an engine it's

551
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:54,799
a world ship

552
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:57,280
something like that it would be small

553
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:59,039
because you could duplicate

554
00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:01,200
uh terrestrial ecology to a certain

555
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,240
extent

556
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:04,720
if you watch the ruby interstellar the

557
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,559
popular movie interstellar

558
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:09,200
towards the end of that there is a

559
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,240
people are living

560
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:13,840
4 000 people or so are living in a

561
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:17,520
meal type space habitat which is located

562
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,799
between between i believe near the orbit

563
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,640
of saturn because they want to

564
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:24,880
ultimately get into the black hole

565
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:28,880
and fly to their destination but

566
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:31,120
it does demonstrate that the idea has

567
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:32,080
caught on

568
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:35,360
also there was a tv

569
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:38,000
science fiction series i believe babylon

570
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:39,200
5

571
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:44,080
space colonies

572
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:48,080
and or free-flying space habitats we

573
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:50,159
should call them

574
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:52,480
um you know a lot of times you'll see on

575
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,279
some of these

576
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,440
you know i love science fiction and i

577
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:57,360
think a lot of great ideas come from

578
00:24:02,630 --> 00:23:58,799
science fiction

579
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:02,640
and maybe vice versa i'm not sure but um

580
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:04,240
when you see some of these space

581
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:05,679
habitats

582
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:09,279
they are orbiting to maintain like a

583
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,200
natural gravity and sign is that

584
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:12,720
inside is that something that would

585
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:15,279
actually work like if it orbits would it

586
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:16,640
create a gravity

587
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:19,520
oh yeah in fact there was an experiment

588
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:20,880
on one of the

589
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:24,799
early gemini flights in which the gemini

590
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,320
had rendezvoused with an aegina and

591
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:30,720
an astronaut did a spacewalk might have

592
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,080
been buzz aldrin actually

593
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:34,640
who did this attached to tether to the

594
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:35,679
agena

595
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:38,000
and then they decoupled and they spun

596
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:39,039
for a bit at a

597
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:42,559
slow rate but they were able to get

598
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:44,720
a low level of partial gravity and

599
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:46,080
demonstrate that the concept

600
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:49,520
works i believe i believe you might have

601
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:51,120
your mail open or something if you

602
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:52,640
wouldn't mind closing that unfortunately

603
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:53,760
the noise is

604
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,679
popping across the screen

605
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:59,360
you want to just uh you want to go to

606
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:01,520
your mail application on the top

607
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:04,720
and uh and then just do close if you

608
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:05,520
would

609
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:08,559
yeah the mail i

610
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,080
i do see i i see aol mail i just will

611
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:14,720
i do a close i hit the x on that right

612
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,279
yeah yeah

613
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:18,159
anything yeah okay look it went out good

614
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:18,960
okay

615
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:22,159
that

616
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,760
um i can't remember what i asked you

617
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,600
i just asked you a question right i

618
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:29,039
think we were talking about

619
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,159
space habitats yes and so they could

620
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,720
create some type they created a low

621
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:35,919
level gravity

622
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:38,400
so in theory that means that they could

623
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:40,400
indeed create a natural

624
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,840
like earth gravity yeah

625
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:46,159
yeah go ahead if you remember also in

626
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:49,360
the movie 2001 a space odyssey

627
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:52,640
the space station does spin and it has

628
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:54,159
i don't know if it's earth gravity or

629
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:55,600
lunar gravity but it's certainly at

630
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:57,760
least a partial gravity

631
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:00,799
yeah i know at uh you know i remember uh

632
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,159
i can't remember his first name but his

633
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:04,480
last name was scott you know the

634
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:07,760
longest uh living person on uh

635
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,559
you know in the space station and he has

636
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:12,720
he's a twin brother when he came back

637
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,440
you know there something changed a

638
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:17,039
little bit between the twins

639
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:20,880
yeah and and but also being

640
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:23,840
in a weightless environment really plays

641
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:24,799
havoc

642
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,960
and in your book you talk about some of

643
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:28,240
the lengths of time that there would

644
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:29,520
have to be travel

645
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:30,720
so that would really have to be

646
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:33,520
addressed um if that type of travel

647
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:36,559
does happen you know if we are going to

648
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:37,520
miles

649
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:40,400
by either chemical propulsion nuclear

650
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:41,360
propulsion

651
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:45,840
today the iron drive

652
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,360
basically you're going to be away from

653
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:49,200
home for something like upwards of two

654
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,559
years

655
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:53,440
either each one-way flight takes nine

656
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,159
months

657
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:56,240
then you have to wait for the planets to

658
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:58,240
come back into configuration

659
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:01,120
so you could come home so you have to

660
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:03,360
feel that people are going to be

661
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:07,600
exposed to weightlessness and um

662
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:10,320
galactic cosmic radiation for upwards of

663
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:11,279
a year

664
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:14,240
and that's not good yeah yeah that's

665
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:16,000
that's another thing i mean how

666
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:19,039
how can they shield i mean

667
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:22,399
for an effective way to shield

668
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,320
how do you do that is it only lead i

669
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:25,919
mean i've heard of something about

670
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:27,039
circulating

671
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:30,720
fluids of some kind through yeah a

672
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,399
a self-shielded spacecraft they

673
00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:36,640
basically something which shields itself

674
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,799
it doesn't have any extra shielding

675
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,279
the maximum amount of time that an

676
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:42,640
astronaut

677
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:45,440
could spend in it without having a five

678
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:46,000
i believe

679
00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:48,240
a five percent chance of dying of cancer

680
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:49,600
later on

681
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,720
um over his normal you know

682
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,279
probabilities of that happening about

683
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:57,120
300 days

684
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,159
something like that basically

685
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:02,159
if we're going to do a round trip to

686
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,960
mars we either have to have a very very

687
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,960
energetic spacecraft

688
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:09,520
or we have to carry additional shielding

689
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:11,840
there's a number of ways of doing this

690
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:14,480
one way is to just have a lot of mass

691
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:15,840
mass shielding

692
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:18,159
another possibility is to have a

693
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,120
magnetic

694
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:22,159
field that shields you now the problem

695
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:23,120
with magnetic

696
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:27,360
fields today is to have something

697
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:30,640
most of our superconducting material

698
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,200
um works best at low temperatures

699
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:37,760
and what you have to do is shield it so

700
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:39,279
that it doesn't

701
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,559
um become a regular conductor and the

702
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:44,080
shielding itself

703
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,799
and the circulating cooling or warming

704
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:48,480
fluids whatever you're using

705
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,799
are expensive and cumbersome and heavy

706
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:54,880
another possibility that people have

707
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,120
talked about is medicine

708
00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,000
there are certain creatures the famous

709
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:01,840
party brad

710
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:09,830
radiation damage there also is a variety

711
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:13,200
of bacteria that likes to live inside

712
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:16,480
the core of nuclear reactors

713
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:19,600
so maybe we can see how they do it and

714
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,600
we can do little genetic

715
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:24,399
work inside the astronauts something of

716
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:26,000
that nature

717
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,840
another possibility people have talked

718
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:30,240
about is hibernation

719
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:34,159
if you have a clue say of

720
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,200
six people but only two have to be awake

721
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:38,640
at any one time

722
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:41,679
the others can basically be in the stack

723
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,000
and the other two can have a very small

724
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:46,080
habitat they don't need as much room

725
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,960
so you have less shielding and that is

726
00:29:52,269 --> 00:29:50,240
another possibility

727
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:52,279
that was the one that was used also in

728
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,679
2001

729
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:55,440
which was a flight if you remember

730
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,470
yep wow uh by the way it was mark and

731
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:04,480
scott kelly thank you jenny for that

732
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:09,440
um mark i believe is the

733
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:11,679
senator and scott of the astronaut i

734
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:14,399
think is that right

735
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:17,440
all right oh i i i don't know you got me

736
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:17,840
there

737
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:21,120
yeah i had the names backwards but

738
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:24,240
but anyway um now here is a uh

739
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:26,559
another question that popped up here

740
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:27,360
could

741
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:30,640
small alien space habitat habitats exist

742
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:33,200
nearby in our vicinity without

743
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:36,720
our detecting them excellent question

744
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:40,240
and i started thinking about this

745
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,159
in the late 80s early 90s

746
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,640
what happened is there was the guy mike

747
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,919
um

748
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,679
his last name forget his last name a

749
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:51,360
radio astronomer

750
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:54,799
at maryland university and

751
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,640
what mike did is he basically said

752
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:01,760
if there are aliens in the solar system

753
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:03,760
a good place to look for them is in the

754
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:05,360
asteroid belt

755
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,559
so he looked at infrared signatures of

756
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:10,880
medium size and small asteroids

757
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:13,919
from the infrared explorer satellite

758
00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:19,039
and nothing was discovered but

759
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:22,480
i think you want to go further afield

760
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:25,360
there is a region called the kuiper belt

761
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:26,640
actually it's not exactly to

762
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:28,799
mispronounce it because kuiper was dutch

763
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,519
it's

764
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:32,000
hypothetic something like that would

765
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:32,960
prevent best

766
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:36,480
most of us can do in the united states

767
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:40,399
it is a region between 30 and 50 or 60

768
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,640
astronomical units from the sun

769
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,880
and one astronomical unit once again is

770
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:46,559
93 million miles

771
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,159
or 150 million kilometers

772
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:53,120
this is the region where pluto is charon

773
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:54,640
its large satellite it's other

774
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,679
satellites

775
00:31:59,590 --> 00:31:57,679
the other kuiper belt objects we've

776
00:32:02,310 --> 00:31:59,600
begun exploring

777
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,320
these are ice bodies they have all the

778
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:04,320
materials

779
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:11,200
that an alien civilization would need

780
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:15,519
to set up suspects

781
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:18,559
so in there was a

782
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:23,760
um contest i believe in 1996

783
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,840
held by a group called the discovery

784
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:27,120
institute

785
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:30,320
and they wanted new versions of

786
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:33,039
seti new things to do and study and i

787
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:34,799
wanted to win because i wanted what to

788
00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:35,440
do buy

789
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,230
an upgraded mac not this one

790
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:39,679
[Music]

791
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:42,080
better than the one i had so i really

792
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:43,840
wanted that three or five thousand

793
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,240
dollars i forgot how much

794
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,440
so i basically titled this essay the

795
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:52,080
re-enchantment of the solar system

796
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:54,159
and i basically went through the numbers

797
00:32:58,630 --> 00:32:55,760
and i said look

798
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:58,640
there could be objects sitting out there

799
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:00,720
in the kuiper belt

800
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,519
and even if you wonder if there are

801
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:05,120
substantial sides

802
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,919
20 or 30 miles across they're too small

803
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:10,240
for us to see

804
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,960
and i won the prize which i was very

805
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:14,159
happy about

806
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:17,519
nice and okay it was great to do that

807
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:20,880
and later on in

808
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:25,039
2004 2005 i did a couple of papers

809
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,480
at the british and the general of the

810
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:28,559
british interplanetary society

811
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,519
one was co-authored with tony martin who

812
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:33,519
at the time was the editor of it

813
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:37,200
and we basically looked at the infrared

814
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:38,799
signatures

815
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:42,320
of artificial habitats in the kuiper

816
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:43,200
belt

817
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:45,039
and then we tried to see if any of the

818
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,039
large hyperbaric bodies

819
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:49,519
indicated anything quite that red and of

820
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,000
course nothing else did at this point

821
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:54,480
but has really scratched the surface of

822
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:56,159
the kuiper belt

823
00:34:02,710 --> 00:33:59,760
there was only one effort to find

824
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,720
a object in the kuiper belt of the

825
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:04,720
appropriate size

826
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:08,480
of a space habitat and this was after

827
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:11,520
the new horizons flew by

828
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:14,800
um pluto and satellites they wanted to

829
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:15,760
go through another

830
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:18,960
destination which is called mu69

831
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:22,399
or ultima toulet and

832
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:24,960
they wanted to find another destination

833
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,240
how were they going to do it

834
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:28,960
they even had the hubble space telescope

835
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:29,760
at their

836
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:32,639
disposal they said the only way to do it

837
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:34,960
they were going to have to look at stars

838
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:38,240
along the equatorial belt of the solar

839
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:39,440
system

840
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:43,040
or the what's called the uh uh

841
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:46,560
ecliptic and try to see if there are any

842
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:48,639
stars that are eclipsed if there are

843
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,679
clips

844
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:51,359
if something's moving in front of them a

845
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:52,720
transit

846
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:57,760
maybe there's a big a 20 mile

847
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:00,880
sized space object near there and

848
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:04,480
after months of studying they found one

849
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:08,720
but a lot of effort to do this

850
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:12,160
uh could you you know

851
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:15,040
we estimated that other people estimated

852
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,240
that they do in the book

853
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:17,760
that the magnitude of one of these

854
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:21,440
things visual magnitude is about 26.

855
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,000
the best that the hubble has done is

856
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,839
magnitude 29

857
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:27,520
and that had to be looking at a

858
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:29,040
particular star field

859
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,599
for something like 90 hours or 90 days i

860
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:33,040
forget how long

861
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,480
so you know these things there could be

862
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,160
thousands of them out there there could

863
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,880
be millions or billions of aliens in our

864
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,240
solar system

865
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,880
now other people have looked at this in

866
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:46,720
a circumspect fashion

867
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:49,920
i know you had avi loeb on a while ago

868
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:52,720
he did a paper with ed towns and they

869
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,119
both

870
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:55,520
loved the city of tokyo and they said

871
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:56,800
okay

872
00:36:01,349 --> 00:36:00,320
let's see what tokyo the lights of tokyo

873
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:01,359
would look like

874
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:04,000
in the kaipava and they published a

875
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:05,280
paper about this

876
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:08,320
protecting the lights of the space city

877
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,839
and they get pretty much the results

878
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:11,520
that i do we could do it

879
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,599
but it'll be very very difficult now

880
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:18,000
other people have started to come on

881
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:21,040
board in a strange way

882
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:22,960
not everybody wants to say that there's

883
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:26,480
a possibility of there being um

884
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:29,440
aliens in the solar system right now but

885
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:31,440
maybe they have been in the past

886
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:32,960
or maybe they've come through and left

887
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:36,400
calling cars so maybe there are probes

888
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,200
maybe there are abandoned habitats maybe

889
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,280
there are other types of artifacts

890
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,560
even on the moon or like my colleague

891
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:46,079
jim benson thinks

892
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:49,839
among objects this group of um

893
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,960
asteroids that co-rotate co-revolve with

894
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:55,200
the earth periodically

895
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:58,400
so you know people are

896
00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:01,040
doing it but they're being being very

897
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:02,000
very safe

898
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:04,480
because they don't want in general to

899
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:05,760
appear as if they're saying

900
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:08,079
the aliens are here and i have no

901
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:08,880
trouble with that

902
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:12,000
the aliens might well be here but if

903
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:13,440
they're here

904
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:17,920
they are so far in advance of us that

905
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:22,079
what our commonality might be very very

906
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,560
limited the in 2013 as i talked about in

907
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,320
the other book a lot the one on on

908
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:30,000
consciousness

909
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,960
upon psychism really the whole universe

910
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,240
was conscious

911
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:36,800
europeans launched an observatory called

912
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:37,920
gaia

913
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,040
to map very accurately

914
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:43,200
positions and motions of a billion stars

915
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:45,440
in the milky way

916
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:49,680
and um also very funny about this

917
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:52,640
when they had the second data release

918
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:53,040
they

919
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,480
sent it to the hayden planetarium

920
00:38:00,310 --> 00:37:58,400
and some sort of aiden associate and i

921
00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:00,320
know neil degrasse tyson

922
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:03,040
denton abel all other people there my

923
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:05,520
wife and i were invited to this

924
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:08,079
and we sat in the dome and they

925
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:09,599
projected on the dome

926
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:12,640
a billion stars from this

927
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:15,760
and i asked i said what happens if

928
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:18,800
they found another 10 stars and um

929
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:21,839
dyson said the dome will collapse

930
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:24,079
can't stand the weight of course it was

931
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:24,960
all right

932
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:28,079
but it was very funny but anyway one

933
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:28,880
thing that

934
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:31,359
it's two things that came out of this

935
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:32,560
periodically

936
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:34,880
at intervals of half a million to a

937
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,160
million years

938
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,720
a rather relatively massive star makes a

939
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:40,560
close approach to the sun

940
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:43,040
within a light year within 60 000

941
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:44,480
astronomical units

942
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:47,760
okay is that that's a fact that's that's

943
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,359
yes and the next one i think is going to

944
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:52,720
be

945
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,240
i think i think it's in 70 000 years

946
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,560
and i believe it either i forget that 70

947
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,200
000 years in the future of the past

948
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:03,040
but it came within a third of a light

949
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:05,040
year so this happens

950
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:08,160
periodically so aliens

951
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:11,839
if they have advanced technologies

952
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:15,119
they can hop over at one quarter

953
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,440
the flight duration that would normally

954
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:18,960
or nearly take

955
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:20,480
people say when they get to the nearest

956
00:39:24,550 --> 00:39:22,400
star takes a thousand years

957
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:24,560
if the nearest star is a lot closer it

958
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:26,320
only takes 200 years

959
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:29,520
so it's not as daunting another thing

960
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:32,320
another thing is people have come to

961
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:33,359
realize

962
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:36,720
most from the also from gaia the

963
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:40,160
sun is a relatively young star very live

964
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:42,240
in our vicinity of the milky way are

965
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:44,720
more than a billion years older than us

966
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,920
and that's amazing so

967
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,760
you know you can do a very simple

968
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,680
thought experiment let's say that

969
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:53,680
there's a civilization

970
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,240
that basically builds space habitats the

971
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:58,800
solar system as we're starting to do

972
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:01,280
and it decides it's going to migrate

973
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:04,640
only once every half million years or so

974
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:08,160
when another star is very close

975
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,200
so then you say that it goes up by a

976
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:13,280
fact the number of habitats you call

977
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:16,720
you have go up by a factor of two

978
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,680
every half million a million years well

979
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:21,280
after 20 or 30 or

980
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:24,960
35 million years one civilization

981
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,079
has occupied the galaxy

982
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:30,720
and it's very easy to do you just do 2

983
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:32,240
against power and you put

984
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:35,520
in your computer n is equal to 35 or so

985
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:36,319
and you can see

986
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:39,520
it's up in the billions so you then

987
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:40,240
could say

988
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,599
well you know how common

989
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:46,079
are civilizations there's a group of

990
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:47,200
physicists called

991
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:50,720
the rare earth people they used to say

992
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:52,319
well there aren't going to be many

993
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:54,240
places like the earth because

994
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,280
solar systems are rare wrong

995
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:59,200
then he said well there aren't going to

996
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,040
be many jupiters

997
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:04,560
jupiter's protect terrestrial planets

998
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:07,839
from asteroid and comet impacts yeah

999
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:10,079
i thought they did yeah no but they're

1000
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:11,839
wrong in that they said there weren't

1001
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:14,079
going to be very many jupiters

1002
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:16,079
wrong they're all over the place but

1003
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:17,119
then they said

1004
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:19,599
there are not going to be very many

1005
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:22,480
rocky planets within the habitable zone

1006
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:25,520
of stars wrong

1007
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:29,040
again even the volume of a star

1008
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:32,240
a red dwarf called proxima centauri in

1009
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,000
the mirror star stars one of the three

1010
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:36,640
stars in the alpha centauri system

1011
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:39,839
has a habitable planet or a planet

1012
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:41,839
within the habitable zone

1013
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:45,520
um and it's even suspected now

1014
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,160
that the brightest star in the system

1015
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,319
alpha centauri a which is a bit brighter

1016
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:52,240
and older than the sun

1017
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:55,839
may well have a hover have a planet

1018
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:58,160
in the habitable zone it still has to be

1019
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:00,319
confirmed

1020
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:03,200
so then they they could say well okay

1021
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:05,280
you can have horrible habitable planets

1022
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:06,560
all over the place

1023
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,760
but if life forms you have to expect

1024
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:11,760
that life will form physically

1025
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:14,160
it's going to stay very simple how are

1026
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:15,200
you going to make the

1027
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,880
jump from unicel to multi-cell

1028
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:21,520
life going to be very very difficult

1029
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:22,560
billion years

1030
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:26,319
maybe it will never happen long again

1031
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,400
a few years ago there was a group that

1032
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:30,240
took a very simple

1033
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,079
number of one-thousand microorganisms

1034
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,480
yeast and they stressed them with an

1035
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,160
environmental point of view

1036
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:40,880
i forget what they did but they formed a

1037
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:42,240
colony organism

1038
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:45,440
they form multi-cellular yeast

1039
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,040
so i think you know you can come out and

1040
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:51,280
have great filters that's another thing

1041
00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:53,520
you can say that okay you're going to

1042
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:54,800
reach a point

1043
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:57,920
where a number of things can happen to

1044
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:00,480
damage or destroy your ecosystem

1045
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,800
maybe an asteroid hits i took out the

1046
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:04,079
dinosaurs 60

1047
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:06,079
not all of them nothing not the avian

1048
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:08,160
dinosaurs but the ones that didn't have

1049
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:09,119
feathers

1050
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:12,480
and wings 65 million years ago

1051
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,640
the dinosaurs unfortunately no matter

1052
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,240
how intelligent they were

1053
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:18,560
didn't have a space program but if you

1054
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:19,839
disagree with me

1055
00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:22,720
read one of the latest novels by greg

1056
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:23,440
benford

1057
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:27,280
and larry niven bowl of heaven

1058
00:43:31,270 --> 00:43:30,560
and ship star and you can see maybe then

1059
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:31,280
you know

1060
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:32,960
maybe i'm being a little pessimistic

1061
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:35,520
about the dinos i don't know

1062
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:40,000
but anyway um

1063
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,319
you are left with the possibility unless

1064
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:44,880
you can't say everybody blows themselves

1065
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:47,599
up with nuclear war we have had nuclear

1066
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:49,520
the capability to do that

1067
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:51,760
for about 80 years now we haven't blown

1068
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:52,880
ourselves up

1069
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:55,520
if we survive another 80 years we almost

1070
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,200
certainly will have

1071
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:59,280
at least one space habitat that can be

1072
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,240
modestly

1073
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,319
independent of the earth and we will

1074
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:04,000
survive

1075
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:06,000
then you can say okay there's climate

1076
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:07,440
change well

1077
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:10,160
yeah there is climate change that is a

1078
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:10,960
problem

1079
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,119
but we're starting to deal with it and

1080
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:15,200
most people in the united states at

1081
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:15,920
least

1082
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:17,839
and i think over most of the world

1083
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:19,520
except that this is a major problem

1084
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,240
today

1085
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:22,640
particularly i don't have children but

1086
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:23,599
if you have children

1087
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:25,760
you have to look at this very seriously

1088
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:28,720
and i think we're starting to do that

1089
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:31,119
so we might get through this filter as

1090
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,160
well

1091
00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:35,200
yeah so since you need only a few

1092
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:36,480
civilizations

1093
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:39,839
to populate the galaxy in far

1094
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:41,680
less than a billion years and you

1095
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:43,760
certainly have the time to do it

1096
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:45,920
you basically have to say if they are

1097
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:48,079
not in the kuiper belt

1098
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:50,960
somebody's thought processes have to be

1099
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:53,200
changed

1100
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:56,240
amazing well that's really great

1101
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,079
um it really is uh

1102
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:02,720
you know just something to think about

1103
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:03,200
you know

1104
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:04,400
when you're thinking about the

1105
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:07,359
possibility of these

1106
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,720
you know some of these planets that have

1107
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:10,960
been around much longer than we have

1108
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:13,280
and but again like you just said the

1109
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,160
filter

1110
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,640
you know were societies did they wipe

1111
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:18,000
themselves out like we could

1112
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:21,119
very well do and start over again you

1113
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:22,720
know i mean

1114
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:24,079
would they have they would have enough

1115
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:26,720
time to actually do that and go beyond

1116
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:28,960
our technology a couple of times

1117
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,880
if that's if that's what happened

1118
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:32,640
there's also another filter

1119
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:35,839
that i didn't mention and this

1120
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:39,760
is basically the psychosis

1121
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:43,599
cybernetic filter according to people

1122
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,040
like wolfram and others at the

1123
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:49,680
more french mathematical and others

1124
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:51,920
computers will have the capability

1125
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:54,800
to have human consciousness uploaded to

1126
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:55,680
them

1127
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:58,079
within the next few decades that's

1128
00:46:02,550 --> 00:45:58,960
amazing

1129
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:02,560
now you know basically a civilization

1130
00:46:08,710 --> 00:46:05,599
people in it are going to make a choice

1131
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:08,720
and the choice is do we go and live

1132
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:11,920
immortally in a virtual world

1133
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:15,119
basically play video games for the next

1134
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:16,480
1 million years

1135
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:20,160
very people completely stay from any

1136
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:21,440
major catastrophe

1137
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:24,480
okay how do we do that or

1138
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:27,520
do we expand in space maybe we can do

1139
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:28,160
both

1140
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:30,960
or maybe a society makes a choice one

1141
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:31,440
way

1142
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:33,839
or the other to be inward looking or

1143
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:35,280
outward looking

1144
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,480
i don't know nobody knows are you saying

1145
00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:40,160
along the lines like if your

1146
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:42,079
consciousness i mean your

1147
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:45,119
your whatever it is is uploaded to a

1148
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:47,839
machine that that machine could travel

1149
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:50,000
um in space and play video games while

1150
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:51,839
they're traveling

1151
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:53,839
for a million years we could certainly

1152
00:47:00,550 --> 00:46:57,280
do that and people have suggested that

1153
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:03,589
oh i have to look at i'm not going to

1154
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:05,280
find this book right now

1155
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:08,079
there is a famous physicist who

1156
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:09,839
basically talked about the physics of

1157
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,119
immortality

1158
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,359
and he says in this that there's not

1159
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:14,960
going to be

1160
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:17,760
natural humans who travel to the stars

1161
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:20,000
there's going to be virtual humans

1162
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:24,240
uploaded souls inside computer ships

1163
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:27,760
inside starships well that's

1164
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,119
maybe so yeah you know

1165
00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:33,920
the other thing though uh i'll just

1166
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:35,839
throw this at you too

1167
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:38,880
is there perhaps a chance that we

1168
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,599
haven't figured out something in physics

1169
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:44,640
that another alien technology has

1170
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:46,880
figured out as far as travel

1171
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:51,040
yeah what i do is i concentrate on known

1172
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:52,480
physics basically

1173
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:54,880
most of the ships into stellar ships and

1174
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,960
interplanetary ships i've talked about

1175
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:59,200
have used the pressure of light solar

1176
00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:00,319
sailing

1177
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:02,559
and that's also i do some of this work

1178
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:04,000
that's why i know alvi loeb

1179
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:06,960
with the breakthrough scholarship people

1180
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:07,440
that was

1181
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:16,309
in 1990 the early 90s i forget when it

1182
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:16,880
was

1183
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,359
on a science fiction novel

1184
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,119
and people said why was i going to be an

1185
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:25,119
unpaid why did i accept this

1186
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:28,160
the author was buzz aldrin oh

1187
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:31,440
i have one book called encounter with

1188
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:34,160
timer he did it with john bonds and what

1189
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,880
buzz did

1190
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:36,880
is he said okay her first ship is going

1191
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:39,200
to be a standard light sailor

1192
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:41,839
designed for me solo sailing and then

1193
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:42,319
using

1194
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:44,800
laser push after that i had done it a

1195
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:46,400
hundred times it was easy

1196
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:48,319
he had another guy chelsea opposed who

1197
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:49,440
did it also

1198
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:53,359
they said all right greg for your next

1199
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:56,800
challenge i want a spacecraft if you get

1200
00:49:02,110 --> 00:48:58,000
up to 99

1201
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,120
the speed of light no anti-matter

1202
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:03,839
[Music]

1203
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:06,880
so i spoke with a few people in um

1204
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,160
quantum mechanics and i realized that

1205
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:13,200
in every little bit of vacuum there's a

1206
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:15,200
tremendous amount of energy a giant

1207
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:16,400
amount of energy

1208
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:19,200
but it cancels itself out could we ever

1209
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,960
stabilize it that's what happened to the

1210
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:22,319
big bang

1211
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,440
one little tiny thing a tiny tiny

1212
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:27,599
fraction of a micron across

1213
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,319
stabilized that became our universe

1214
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:32,480
could we ever tap into this

1215
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:35,760
this is called the casimir effect we get

1216
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,559
net energy from it now the casimir

1217
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:40,640
effect works if i can use

1218
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:44,240
two boxes trunks basically

1219
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:47,760
you have two electrically charged

1220
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:52,079
um objects metal plates

1221
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:54,559
they're separated by maybe a micron

1222
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,760
there is

1223
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:57,520
two forces going on is the

1224
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:59,280
electrodynamic force

1225
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:01,440
that is also the customary effect that

1226
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:02,720
is because

1227
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:05,200
not all of the vacuum fluctuations can

1228
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:06,880
get inside

1229
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:09,839
so it tends to push this together

1230
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,720
casimir

1231
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:13,440
discovered this in 1948 when he was

1232
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:14,559
looking at the way

1233
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:17,040
a hydrogen molecule works i'm sorry the

1234
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:18,319
water molecule

1235
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:19,839
and he was able to demonstrate that

1236
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:22,160
something like 30

1237
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:25,440
of the force holding it together

1238
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:28,240
is that from the casimir effect this was

1239
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:29,920
actually known to the romans they didn't

1240
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,040
know what it was

1241
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:33,359
they knew if you had two metallic plates

1242
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:34,880
and you kept them together they were

1243
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:36,559
hard to separate

1244
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:40,319
the problem is you have the two plates

1245
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:42,800
you let them come together you get force

1246
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:43,680
out of it

1247
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:46,400
but then you have to separate it nobody

1248
00:50:49,829 --> 00:50:47,119
knows

1249
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:49,839
how to do this and get net force out

1250
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:50,720
separating

1251
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,559
you have to put exactly as much force

1252
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,880
into it as you got out of it

1253
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:57,280
maybe there's a way but anyway i came up

1254
00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:59,680
with a casimir effect space drive

1255
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,960
and i had a casimir laser buzz loved it

1256
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:04,960
and i later presented it at the

1257
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:06,400
breakthrough first breakthrough

1258
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:07,440
conference

1259
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:10,319
at master glam as it's now called it was

1260
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,200
in cleveland

1261
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,440
that's the newest it was called then

1262
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:16,000
mark millis put this on

1263
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:19,040
and uh okay it was a lot of fun

1264
00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:23,119
i didn't think much about it but

1265
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,240
periodically people come up with

1266
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:29,359
what might be space drives might require

1267
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:30,640
new physics

1268
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:34,240
one of these is by a guy named

1269
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:37,920
um well sunny white is now considering

1270
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:38,160
it

1271
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:44,800
a microwave

1272
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:48,000
tube configured like a rocket so he

1273
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,640
figures

1274
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:50,880
he's getting a thrust out because of the

1275
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:52,720
nozzle

1276
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:54,559
it shouldn't work according to

1277
00:51:59,349 --> 00:51:57,440
conventional physics

1278
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:59,359
maybe it doesn't work there's all types

1279
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:01,520
of possibilities because

1280
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:04,800
the force that's coming out is so small

1281
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:06,640
but it's still very much alive and it

1282
00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:08,400
has to be tested

1283
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:10,720
and groups like nafta and the british

1284
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:12,880
space agency and others

1285
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,280
and maybe the chinese there's some talk

1286
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:17,599
that the chinese have tested it in space

1287
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:20,640
and it works perfectly

1288
00:52:23,829 --> 00:52:22,640
that just might be propaganda i have no

1289
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:23,839
way of knowing

1290
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:26,480
another group doing something similar is

1291
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:26,880
with

1292
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:35,030
what's the group john woodward and um

1293
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:38,000
heidi fern and it's basically another

1294
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:39,040
type of drive

1295
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:43,680
which might also use um

1296
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,160
the vacuum in one way or another and

1297
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:47,760
it's possible

1298
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:50,960
not impossible but these things actually

1299
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:51,760
could give you

1300
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,040
good thrust the problem is

1301
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:57,680
it's very hard to prove and there's a

1302
00:53:02,230 --> 00:52:59,520
lot of skepticism

1303
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:02,240
yeah i know um there's always

1304
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:03,760
speculation of what's going on

1305
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:05,440
and the skunk works whether what they're

1306
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,800
trying to develop

1307
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:09,599
there um we are going into break in

1308
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,000
about

1309
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:12,720
two minutes but uh getting back to space

1310
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:13,280
travel

1311
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,280
um this question was asked earlier i

1312
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:16,800
wanted to make sure i got it up

1313
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:19,920
from night stu um there oh has there

1314
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:22,000
been a study to see

1315
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,680
what the effects of prolonged space

1316
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:25,440
travel have on epigenetics

1317
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:27,520
and isn't that what they did with kelly

1318
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,200
let's see oh that's the way they did it

1319
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:30,720
with the two twins

1320
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:34,000
one one became senator could the other

1321
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:35,920
one could the astronaut kelly

1322
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:44,870
you know uh i haven't heard

1323
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:46,559
any of the results but i know that there

1324
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:48,960
are now genetic differences

1325
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:51,200
between these two like formerly

1326
00:53:55,589 --> 00:53:53,040
identical twins

1327
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:55,599
one month a year in space so yes that's

1328
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:56,160
a great

1329
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:58,559
question that is the only study so far

1330
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:59,760
on humans

1331
00:54:04,230 --> 00:54:01,920
it is possible they've been studies on

1332
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:04,240
animals or plants or bacteria

1333
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:07,359
that i don't know about yeah yeah

1334
00:54:11,109 --> 00:54:09,839
well uh well we're right at the point of

1335
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:11,119
break so we might as well

1336
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:13,920
jump into break now so uh for those of

1337
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:15,839
you at kgra radio

1338
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:17,920
we'll be back right after these messages

1339
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:19,280
from youtube i have a

1340
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:21,200
short clip and then uh we're gonna have

1341
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:22,640
a little dead air for about a minute or

1342
00:55:05,190 --> 00:54:22,960
so

1343
00:56:16,549 --> 00:55:32,720
[Music]

1344
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:18,950
all right welcome back everyone uh my

1345
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:20,559
guest tonight

1346
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:23,920
um is greg matloff and uh i'm having a

1347
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:24,880
great discussion

1348
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,119
i hope you all are enjoying it and uh

1349
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:28,960
here he is

1350
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:30,960
uh wow we're on the wrong side here let

1351
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:32,530
me bring you back over here

1352
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:34,880
[Laughter]

1353
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:38,079
so yeah a a fascinating uh uh

1354
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:39,920
subject you know because you really have

1355
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,599
to think of uh

1356
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:43,599
you know if someone's not uploaded in a

1357
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,880
machine

1358
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:47,760
you know their body's gonna you know

1359
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,680
suffer consequences and one of the

1360
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:51,839
one of the things that that makes me

1361
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:53,599
think of and just to throw at you

1362
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:58,000
as well is uh as far as

1363
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:01,040
say an evolution on a planet i mean

1364
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:02,240
there are so

1365
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:04,880
you know i mean uh i i talked to an

1366
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,079
astronomer friend

1367
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:08,480
or he has brought this up that uh

1368
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:09,359
obviously

1369
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:13,680
you know bipedal and and uh bipedal and

1370
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,799
binocular vision are something optimal

1371
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:18,480
because of all the different species on

1372
00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:20,559
this planet that have that

1373
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:24,079
you know i mean we might we might agree

1374
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,520
that that's a possibility that they

1375
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:27,440
would develop in that way but when

1376
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:29,680
things come into play like different

1377
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,480
gravities

1378
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:32,559
i mean that's a major thing i mean

1379
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:33,920
there's so many different major things

1380
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:36,160
but gravity is a big thing

1381
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:38,079
um and how do you think that would

1382
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:40,880
affect the development of a species

1383
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,280
well in different ways and also i'd like

1384
00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:45,359
to introduce you to my colleague back

1385
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:46,160
there

1386
00:57:52,829 --> 00:57:49,680
his name is principium

1387
00:58:05,270 --> 00:57:52,839
wait a minute let's get a shot on that

1388
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:07,910
so are you sure that's not a bear rug

1389
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:10,880
any and he also

1390
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:14,400
no that's a kitty i'm just here

1391
00:58:19,839 --> 00:58:24,309
oh that's funny okay i thought

1392
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:27,910
any anyway i can let people look at it

1393
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,200
um the question that you you

1394
00:58:34,829 --> 00:58:33,119
basically raise about gravity is very

1395
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:34,839
interesting

1396
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:38,240
um in the low gravity world let's say

1397
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:42,880
if mars mars has about 40 percent

1398
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:45,280
the gravity that the earth does if it

1399
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:46,079
were a bit

1400
00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:48,720
warmer it might have been able to hold

1401
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:50,799
on to its oceans

1402
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:53,839
creatures there would tend to have

1403
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:57,200
probably longer legs they would be

1404
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,559
you know um more slender

1405
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:02,880
than we are because of that low gravity

1406
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,160
and it's very possible

1407
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:07,200
that if ellen musk is correct and we

1408
00:59:11,430 --> 00:59:10,079
build a city on mars oh he's leaving

1409
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:11,440
okay he's had enough

1410
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:14,400
if you build a city on mars in the next

1411
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:15,760
couple of decades

1412
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:19,359
it's not beyond the range of possibility

1413
00:59:23,109 --> 00:59:21,680
that the whole epigenetics thing will

1414
00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:23,119
start working that people

1415
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:25,760
will change to adapt to the new

1416
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:26,640
environment

1417
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:28,480
and so will the other life that we bring

1418
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:31,040
with us trees for instance might be

1419
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:33,520
taller and more slender

1420
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:36,559
imagine a giraffe 30 feet tall you know

1421
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:38,319
that would be interesting

1422
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:40,720
all of this all of this could certainly

1423
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:42,000
be the case

1424
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:44,960
uh also in a high gravity world you

1425
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:47,440
would tend to be squashed in

1426
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,520
probably unless you maybe maybe you're

1427
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,160
living in the seas

1428
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:54,960
you could be in a higher gravity world

1429
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:55,520
with

1430
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:57,359
a dense atmosphere and this is something

1431
01:00:01,829 --> 00:59:58,799
that's called sagan

1432
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:01,839
and and dry on talk about i believe

1433
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:06,000
in cosmos

1434
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:08,079
and they mentioned the fact that one

1435
01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:09,040
type of life

1436
01:00:14,150 --> 01:00:11,520
not a terrestrial life but a strange

1437
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:14,160
alien life you might think about are

1438
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:15,839
blimp-like creatures

1439
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:18,319
living in the atmospheres of gas giants

1440
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:20,319
like jupiter

1441
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:23,359
and fast-moving giant limbs

1442
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:28,710
balloon fighters running in as the

1443
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:31,040
predators to eat the blimps

1444
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:35,040
so you know we can't rule out an ecology

1445
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,400
like that

1446
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:39,680
uh also not only do we have to deal with

1447
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:41,200
gravity

1448
01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:42,310
to deal with um

1449
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:48,150
local chemistry effects things like that

1450
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:50,160
look at titan for instance

1451
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:53,920
titan is very cold but in many ways from

1452
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:55,680
a chemical point of view

1453
01:01:03,349 --> 01:00:59,520
its surface is not the smaller from that

1454
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:03,359
of the earth say 4 billion years ago

1455
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,160
when life was just getting started

1456
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:09,359
so life might have begun there in fact

1457
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:11,280
when life first starts on the earth it

1458
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:14,640
is oxygen heating life

1459
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:18,559
and it excretes oxygen

1460
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,880
as a waste product and later on there's

1461
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:22,319
a mutation

1462
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,720
and creatures come along who can live

1463
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,079
off this oxygen

1464
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:28,720
and they love it and the oxygen the the

1465
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,000
um

1466
01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:33,280
the aerophones i believe they're called

1467
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:36,720
end up being exiled to the

1468
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:39,760
uh ocean the deep ocean vents and places

1469
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:40,559
like that

1470
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:42,640
it's really the only time you see them

1471
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:44,640
they came up they come up during

1472
01:01:51,670 --> 01:01:47,760
um el nino events

1473
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:51,680
now you could have a whole ecology on

1474
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:54,400
titan based upon this

1475
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:57,200
so even the concept of the habitable

1476
01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:58,079
zone

1477
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:01,680
has to be enlarged the talk about a

1478
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:03,680
habitable zone

1479
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:11,589
it's an idealization you say you take

1480
01:02:19,670 --> 01:02:12,240
the earth

1481
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:19,680
you put it around the sun around another

1482
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:20,559
star

1483
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:24,480
the sun

1484
01:02:28,630 --> 01:02:26,640
until the ocean starts to boil that is

1485
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:28,640
the inner

1486
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:32,880
the habitable zone

1487
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:35,440
then you bring out this earth further

1488
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:36,000
out

1489
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,160
to the point where the ocean start to

1490
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:40,559
freeze that is the outer limit

1491
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:43,200
in our solar system there were only two

1492
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:44,960
habitable planets according to that

1493
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,079
definition

1494
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,960
the earth is dab in the middle of it

1495
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:49,680
mars

1496
01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:52,720
is just that they out of fringe which is

1497
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,400
why some people still say

1498
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:56,960
there might be some life or noise today

1499
01:03:03,029 --> 01:03:00,000
it might not be completely extinct

1500
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,039
but then you have to realize

1501
01:03:07,029 --> 01:03:05,599
this was an idealization people began

1502
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:07,039
making other discoveries

1503
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:10,240
one discovery was that there's a moon of

1504
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:10,880
jupiter

1505
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:14,079
called europa europa has

1506
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:17,039
a ocean which is probably something like

1507
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:20,240
30 or 40 kilometers deep

1508
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:21,839
and it was supposed to be a completely

1509
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:24,480
frozen ocean but they noticed hey

1510
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:27,680
there's cracks in the ice some people

1511
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:29,119
joked about it and said

1512
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:33,440
the martian canal has migrated europa

1513
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:36,880
laws but what seems to happen

1514
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:40,079
is because of the proximity of this

1515
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:41,760
planet to jupiter

1516
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:44,480
tidal effects and maybe other effects

1517
01:03:47,109 --> 01:03:44,799
too

1518
01:03:49,349 --> 01:03:47,119
deep inside the planet internal heating

1519
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:49,359
inside the satellite

1520
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:52,400
raise the temperature replacement above

1521
01:03:56,829 --> 01:03:55,290
the melting point a freezing point of

1522
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:56,839
[Music]

1523
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:58,319
water

1524
01:04:01,670 --> 01:04:01,039
you could have life there now that's

1525
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:01,680
sort of like

1526
01:04:12,870 --> 01:04:10,789
go ahead yeah sorry yeah

1527
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:12,880
oh i was going to say in one of the

1528
01:04:19,029 --> 01:04:15,280
sequels to 2001

1529
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:19,039
among the alien

1530
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:21,359
species who have put the monolith in

1531
01:04:25,829 --> 01:04:23,119
really aren't interested in us they're

1532
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:25,839
listed in europa and they give a message

1533
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:27,359
to terrestrial people

1534
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:30,400
when they convert jupiter into a sun and

1535
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:32,079
they say

1536
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:35,520
all these worlds are yours but don't you

1537
01:04:39,910 --> 01:04:37,280
dare touch europa

1538
01:04:42,230 --> 01:04:39,920
and that's very and so there might be

1539
01:04:45,029 --> 01:04:42,240
something there also a titan

1540
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:45,039
and finally we've now discovered that

1541
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:47,839
there are internal heat sources

1542
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:51,280
in many probably most solar system

1543
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:55,200
bodies larger than the big asteroids

1544
01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:58,079
uh ceres which was just visited by a u.s

1545
01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:59,760
probe

1546
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:01,920
surprisingly to everybody seems to have

1547
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:03,760
an internal heat source

1548
01:05:08,309 --> 01:05:06,240
uh every major planet those that uranus

1549
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:08,319
would ever knock you in this on its side

1550
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:11,200
probably killed it millions of years ago

1551
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:13,760
great point

1552
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,039
yeah wow so the planet

1553
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:19,760
you mentioned i mean i'm sorry the moon

1554
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:20,640
you mentioned

1555
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:23,760
um with the internal water

1556
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:26,880
over ice in the the cracks um the tidal

1557
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:28,559
effect is that

1558
01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:30,160
i know there's some type of effect

1559
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:32,079
that's kind of like needing bread when

1560
01:05:35,829 --> 01:05:34,400
when you work it and it gets warm

1561
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:35,839
because it's kind of like squishing

1562
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:37,440
together and moving apart is that

1563
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:40,000
is that kind of what that would be doing

1564
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:40,640
it

1565
01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:44,160
course they could often

1566
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:48,640
uh another possibility is this

1567
01:05:54,150 --> 01:05:51,920
in the i believe it's either the central

1568
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:54,160
african republic or gabon

1569
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:57,440
one of the african states

1570
01:06:02,549 --> 01:06:00,240
about two million years ago deep

1571
01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:02,559
underground there was a natural

1572
01:06:07,109 --> 01:06:05,440
nuclear reactor that operated for half a

1573
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:07,119
million years

1574
01:06:14,630 --> 01:06:10,880
and what happened is uranium

1575
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:14,640
another maybe radio visible material

1576
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:17,039
came together under high pressure and

1577
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,400
stayed there

1578
01:06:21,750 --> 01:06:20,799
long enough for a lot of energy to be

1579
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:21,760
generated

1580
01:06:25,270 --> 01:06:24,000
this might also be where deep what is

1581
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:25,280
the cause of deep focus

1582
01:06:30,069 --> 01:06:28,000
earthquakes deep focused earthquakes

1583
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:30,079
still occur in places even not on

1584
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:34,400
in on fourth zones there was one

1585
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:36,880
oh 20 or 30 kilometers below new york

1586
01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:38,480
city in 1986

1587
01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:41,920
and 87 which i remember very well

1588
01:06:46,150 --> 01:06:45,520
um it just made a very big bang that was

1589
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:46,160
all

1590
01:06:51,829 --> 01:06:49,280
in the air pressure fell but

1591
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:51,839
this might well be caused by local

1592
01:06:56,870 --> 01:06:54,160
radioactive heating

1593
01:06:58,470 --> 01:06:56,880
and this is going to go on inside bodies

1594
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:58,480
other than the earth

1595
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:01,680
a moon may have the two the moon

1596
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:03,760
seems to be geologically dead in most

1597
01:07:07,109 --> 01:07:04,799
places

1598
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:07,119
but there's one crater i believe and

1599
01:07:10,470 --> 01:07:07,920
this darkest

1600
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:10,480
is its name that occasionally seems to

1601
01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:12,480
put out a puff of something

1602
01:07:16,789 --> 01:07:13,920
indicating that there's something going

1603
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:16,799
on deep underneath

1604
01:07:24,069 --> 01:07:20,480
last year i thought i muted my mic

1605
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:24,079
um so uh

1606
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:27,520
how important is a magnetosphere you

1607
01:07:32,309 --> 01:07:28,960
know i understand that mars

1608
01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:32,319
probably had one at one point and uh

1609
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:34,160
and that was you mentioned that it might

1610
01:07:38,549 --> 01:07:36,400
have been too cold to hang on to its

1611
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:38,559
um water i i thought you said something

1612
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:39,440
like that

1613
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:42,480
no but is uh

1614
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:45,760
can life survive without a magnetosphere

1615
01:07:49,829 --> 01:07:47,760
around a planet well that's a good

1616
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:49,839
question

1617
01:07:57,430 --> 01:07:53,760
the magneto magnetosphere protects us

1618
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:57,440
from galactic cosmic rays it turns out

1619
01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:57,839
that

1620
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:00,960
astronauts in low altitudes space

1621
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:03,359
stations and low altitude space fans

1622
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:06,799
that will be building up to maybe

1623
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:08,960
a few thousand kilometers opening the

1624
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:10,079
earth

1625
01:08:13,510 --> 01:08:12,240
are relatively safe because you have the

1626
01:08:16,149 --> 01:08:13,520
earth below you

1627
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:16,159
which is shielding you from 50 of the

1628
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:18,000
galactic cosmic rays

1629
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:19,040
and then you have the earth's

1630
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:21,120
magnetosphere which are cutting out a

1631
01:08:27,269 --> 01:08:23,120
lot more of them

1632
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:27,279
so you do pretty well but

1633
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:30,000
periodically things happen to the

1634
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:32,080
magnetosphere

1635
01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:34,560
uh there was an experiment done in great

1636
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:35,520
britain

1637
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:38,880
after world war ii they knew at this

1638
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:39,440
point

1639
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:42,960
that the earth had two cores the central

1640
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:43,520
core

1641
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:46,960
is mostly solid iron and nickel

1642
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:49,600
the outer core is mostly molten iron and

1643
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:50,719
nickel

1644
01:08:56,550 --> 01:08:54,960
they they rotate at a

1645
01:08:58,870 --> 01:08:56,560
at different rates because they're not

1646
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:58,880
rigidly attached the feeling was that's

1647
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,960
what produced the magnetosphere magnetic

1648
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:02,480
field

1649
01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:06,080
so they set up in the laboratory

1650
01:09:11,590 --> 01:09:09,920
a version of this a small model

1651
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:11,600
and they watched it evolve and then they

1652
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:13,839
noticed heck

1653
01:09:19,110 --> 01:09:17,359
the poles are flipping periodically the

1654
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,120
poles flipped so people started to

1655
01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:21,120
wonder does that happen

1656
01:09:27,510 --> 01:09:24,560
on the earth too and then you come back

1657
01:09:29,669 --> 01:09:27,520
to a little cold war cover-up because

1658
01:09:33,829 --> 01:09:29,679
that's how this was discovered

1659
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:33,839
people realized in the 1960s and 1970s

1660
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:36,000
that sooner or later a russian nuclear

1661
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:37,600
submarine would sink

1662
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:40,480
and it did two american nuclear

1663
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:41,839
submarines sank

1664
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,920
or three or four i forget how many

1665
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:45,520
russian nukes

1666
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:48,719
could we develop a ship

1667
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:52,319
that could basically retrieve this

1668
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:54,480
and learn something about their nuclear

1669
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:55,679
technology

1670
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:58,640
so use aerospace was commissioned to

1671
01:10:02,470 --> 01:10:00,080
build a ship

1672
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:02,480
but they realized this would be piracy

1673
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:04,880
so they needed a cover for this

1674
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:08,159
two ships were discovered one was called

1675
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:10,880
the explorer and they forget what the

1676
01:10:14,229 --> 01:10:12,480
other challenger

1677
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:14,239
the glomer challenger and global

1678
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:16,880
explorer one was going to do

1679
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:20,480
publicized work along a region

1680
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:22,080
of the mid-atlantic called the

1681
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:24,239
mid-atlantic ridge which is a volcanic

1682
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:25,199
region

1683
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:28,640
looking at old crust and getting further

1684
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:30,480
and further from the volcanoes

1685
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:32,480
as you go further and further out the

1686
01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:33,760
crust gets older

1687
01:10:38,630 --> 01:10:36,159
i'm looking at the magnetic alignment of

1688
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:38,640
the solidified iron

1689
01:10:41,669 --> 01:10:40,960
and while the other one was secretly

1690
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:41,679
retrieving

1691
01:10:47,750 --> 01:10:46,719
and apparently they gave the russian

1692
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:47,760
sailors

1693
01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:49,840
a military funeral they were very nice

1694
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:50,960
that way

1695
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:52,640
they admitted this after the end of the

1696
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:54,560
cold war of course

1697
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:58,480
but the other ship god was able to bring

1698
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:00,080
back samples

1699
01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:02,239
from from this ridge and what they

1700
01:11:04,950 --> 01:11:03,360
demonstrated

1701
01:11:07,030 --> 01:11:04,960
is that at intervals of a hundred

1702
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:07,040
thousand years or so the earth's

1703
01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:10,400
magnetosphere does flip the south and

1704
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:11,920
north poles flip

1705
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,960
basically the magnetic field lines come

1706
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:16,000
out of the north pole

1707
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:18,239
in a magnet and go into the south pole

1708
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:19,360
now on the earth

1709
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:21,440
the north pole is really the south pole

1710
01:11:27,669 --> 01:11:24,080
but don't worry about it don't

1711
01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:27,679
but there's some indication

1712
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:29,920
that the magnetosphere might be getting

1713
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:31,360
a little unstable

1714
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:32,930
and sometime in the next uh

1715
01:11:37,350 --> 01:11:34,480
[Music]

1716
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:37,360
thousand years or so it might do a flip

1717
01:11:43,590 --> 01:11:40,080
i wouldn't worry about it too much yeah

1718
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,590
it might have the effect of satellites

1719
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,709
and what will happen is the radiation

1720
01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:52,640
level at earth's surface will go up a

1721
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:53,360
bit

1722
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:55,199
people probably won't go out as much

1723
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:56,400
without

1724
01:12:01,510 --> 01:11:59,520
maybe lead parasols or spend more time

1725
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,520
in their local subway stations

1726
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:03,840
do things like that yeah wow doesn't

1727
01:12:08,229 --> 01:12:06,640
sound doesn't sound like a lot of fun

1728
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:08,239
if you have a house the value of your

1729
01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:10,080
insured basement your

1730
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:13,120
replacement will go up all the all the

1731
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:14,000
preppers will be

1732
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:15,920
so happy they'll be in the bunkers

1733
01:12:19,590 --> 01:12:17,440
exactly right yeah

1734
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:19,600
uh so i'm going to ask you for a a

1735
01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,840
couple of opinions if that and i know a

1736
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:23,280
lot of people in science really don't

1737
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:23,679
like

1738
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:30,080
person so

1739
01:12:36,390 --> 01:12:33,920
um do you think it's possible that

1740
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:36,400
this new rover that landed on mars is

1741
01:12:40,229 --> 01:12:37,840
going to find

1742
01:12:41,430 --> 01:12:40,239
at least ancient life do you think i i

1743
01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:41,440
think it's possible

1744
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:42,719
and i just wonder what your thoughts

1745
01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:44,320
were well i think it's possible and i

1746
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:46,000
hope it does

1747
01:12:52,390 --> 01:12:51,520
only the chinese rover which hasn't

1748
01:12:55,189 --> 01:12:52,400
landed yet

1749
01:12:55,830 --> 01:12:55,199
will also have life detection apparatus

1750
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:55,840
i

1751
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:59,600
there are people

1752
01:13:04,149 --> 01:13:01,920
who say still today that the viking

1753
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:04,159
experiment in 1976

1754
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:07,040
was not as negative as people say you

1755
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:08,719
may remember that there were two row

1756
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:11,760
two landers from nasa viking one and

1757
01:13:14,630 --> 01:13:12,640
viking two

1758
01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:14,640
yeah each of them had three life

1759
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:15,760
detection

1760
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:18,480
devices the first one they got headlines

1761
01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:18,880
said

1762
01:13:26,790 --> 01:13:25,440
i think it's an active surface chemistry

1763
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:26,800
we have to wait for the third one to

1764
01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:27,600
decide

1765
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:30,480
the first one said i'm not sure so

1766
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:32,719
basically the conservative people said

1767
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:37,280
mars does not have life then in 1995

1768
01:13:44,310 --> 01:13:40,480
there was a woman roberta stone

1769
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:44,320
a geologist at nasa johnson i believe

1770
01:13:50,070 --> 01:13:47,520
who was on a expedition to

1771
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:50,080
the south pole but she found a nice

1772
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:51,280
green meteorite

1773
01:13:56,709 --> 01:13:54,320
right knew what that was she said i know

1774
01:13:59,990 --> 01:13:56,719
by the color that's from mars

1775
01:14:04,669 --> 01:14:00,000
not naturally from the poles so it

1776
01:14:10,149 --> 01:14:05,830
a-l-h-o-o-a-l-h

1777
01:14:12,630 --> 01:14:10,159
1980 19 95 001

1778
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:12,640
something like that and they brought it

1779
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:13,199
back

1780
01:14:16,870 --> 01:14:15,360
and they analyzed it very carefully and

1781
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:16,880
it is possible

1782
01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:18,800
that there are very very small

1783
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:21,040
fossilized microorganisms

1784
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:23,360
it is also possible that it's some type

1785
01:14:27,750 --> 01:14:26,000
of crystallization effect

1786
01:14:30,310 --> 01:14:27,760
we're gonna have to see what's there

1787
01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:30,320
hopefully this

1788
01:14:33,910 --> 01:14:33,360
sophisticated spacecraft of perseverance

1789
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:33,920
or the

1790
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:36,560
chinese lander i forget its name will

1791
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:37,440
hopefully

1792
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:42,000
i would i would love it if there was

1793
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:43,920
something alive now but hopefully

1794
01:14:48,149 --> 01:14:46,080
yeah yeah i remember i think bill

1795
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:48,159
clinton was in office at that time

1796
01:14:54,149 --> 01:14:51,600
um and you know one of the things i got

1797
01:14:54,709 --> 01:14:54,159
out of that was wow there could there

1798
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:54,719
could be

1799
01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:57,840
you know uh evidence of that there was

1800
01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:00,000
life on mars

1801
01:15:03,590 --> 01:15:01,760
and i thought that was a really big

1802
01:15:04,310 --> 01:15:03,600
story and then you didn't hear about it

1803
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:04,320
anymore

1804
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:07,440
like it would seem like you would if it

1805
01:15:11,510 --> 01:15:09,280
was a possibility of life

1806
01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:11,520
elsewhere that would be the biggest

1807
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:12,880
story of

1808
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:15,280
you know the millennial because they

1809
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:16,320
couldn't they couldn't do it

1810
01:15:20,550 --> 01:15:17,440
conclusively

1811
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:20,560
i see absolutely like with the viking

1812
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:22,400
experiment

1813
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:24,640
but with all our technology today we

1814
01:15:28,229 --> 01:15:25,520
still can't

1815
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:28,239
take that sample and figure out if it

1816
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:29,040
was

1817
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:32,640
an organism what we might have to do

1818
01:15:38,709 --> 01:15:35,760
is in our plans of doing this this rover

1819
01:15:41,189 --> 01:15:38,719
is going to retrieve a number of samples

1820
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:41,199
and put them in plastic baggies

1821
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,760
and put them back on these treads with

1822
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:45,280
trade tracks

1823
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:46,880
then there's going to be a european

1824
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:48,800
rover that's going to follow these tread

1825
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:50,400
tracks in a few years

1826
01:15:53,669 --> 01:15:53,280
retrieve the baggies and bring them back

1827
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:53,679
to

1828
01:16:01,430 --> 01:16:00,239
not everybody likes this if you've seen

1829
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:01,440
the andromeda

1830
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:06,960
or maybe the man who fell from space

1831
01:16:10,470 --> 01:16:08,159
david bowie

1832
01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:10,480
you might say well maybe it's not such a

1833
01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:11,520
good idea

1834
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:13,120
to bring this stuff right back to the

1835
01:16:17,669 --> 01:16:15,040
earth but yeah

1836
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:17,679
some biologists are saying they have to

1837
01:16:21,830 --> 01:16:20,400
get it into a lab somewhere either on

1838
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:21,840
the surface of mars

1839
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:23,760
the surface of the earth or in an

1840
01:16:27,430 --> 01:16:24,960
orbiting facility

1841
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:27,440
a space station and then they can do the

1842
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:28,719
experiments on it

1843
01:16:33,189 --> 01:16:31,199
and really determine is it alive or not

1844
01:16:36,550 --> 01:16:33,199
with certainty

1845
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:36,560
yeah yeah it's amazing how life

1846
01:16:43,910 --> 01:16:40,320
fights so hard to survive in all these

1847
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:43,920
odd odd places acidic places uh

1848
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:48,400
you know and and uh kind of recently

1849
01:16:53,910 --> 01:16:51,600
um weren't they thinking that there was

1850
01:16:57,189 --> 01:16:53,920
a possibility of some type of life

1851
01:16:59,110 --> 01:16:57,199
detection in venus in the upper

1852
01:17:01,830 --> 01:16:59,120
atmosphere or something

1853
01:17:03,270 --> 01:17:01,840
when you look at venus the low venus has

1854
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:03,280
been very well explored

1855
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:06,239
mostly by the soviets to a lesser extent

1856
01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:08,080
by the us

1857
01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:11,600
we know that its surface is ridiculously

1858
01:17:18,709 --> 01:17:16,630
an atmospheric pressure 90 times out of

1859
01:17:20,870 --> 01:17:18,719
the earth and if that's not bad enough

1860
01:17:23,590 --> 01:17:20,880
there is acid rain falling it is

1861
01:17:24,070 --> 01:17:23,600
probably very close to dante's vision of

1862
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:24,080
hell

1863
01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:27,440
from the middle ages but about

1864
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:30,400
30 or 40 kilometers up in the atmosphere

1865
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:32,239
of venus there is a clement

1866
01:17:38,229 --> 01:17:35,760
zone and if there's water vapor there

1867
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:38,239
it is not impossible that there could be

1868
01:17:43,990 --> 01:17:40,000
life

1869
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:44,000
so one research group has come up with

1870
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:47,440
observations of what might be phosphine

1871
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:50,719
and the theory rules if it is indeed

1872
01:17:56,709 --> 01:17:53,760
phosphane the most

1873
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:56,719
likely way of producing it is an organic

1874
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:57,600
process

1875
01:18:01,590 --> 01:18:00,239
but there might be others once again we

1876
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:01,600
don't know for sure we're going to have

1877
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:03,280
to go back to venus

1878
01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:05,120
and do something in those clouds

1879
01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:06,480
probably with

1880
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:10,800
um equipment suspended from balloons

1881
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:14,080
something like that yeah all fascinating

1882
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:15,600
all right here's the other opinion

1883
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:17,360
question you know this is

1884
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,199
in the title of my show is the word ufo

1885
01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:23,679
and uh i wondered what your your opinion

1886
01:18:27,830 --> 01:18:24,719
is uh

1887
01:18:29,510 --> 01:18:27,840
with say i'm just gonna throw out uh

1888
01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:29,520
i don't know if you followed any of this

1889
01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:31,040
or watched any of it but

1890
01:18:34,229 --> 01:18:33,280
you know the pentagon released some

1891
01:18:36,709 --> 01:18:34,239
videos and

1892
01:18:38,390 --> 01:18:36,719
and um do you think there's a

1893
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:38,400
possibility and i'm i'm not gonna say

1894
01:18:41,110 --> 01:18:39,040
that it's

1895
01:18:42,390 --> 01:18:41,120
extraterrestrial because i don't want to

1896
01:18:44,630 --> 01:18:42,400
say for sure

1897
01:18:45,669 --> 01:18:44,640
but do you think these things are are

1898
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:45,679
possible that they're

1899
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:47,760
seen here in the skies i have evolved in

1900
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:49,840
this direction and i'll tell you

1901
01:18:55,350 --> 01:18:53,120
how this happened in 1970

1902
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:55,360
my first academic position was as a

1903
01:18:59,030 --> 01:18:56,960
research associate

1904
01:19:00,550 --> 01:18:59,040
and teaching assistant at the vans like

1905
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:00,560
observatory

1906
01:19:05,189 --> 01:19:03,920
in wesleyan university in middletown

1907
01:19:08,070 --> 01:19:05,199
connecticut

1908
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:08,080
and i had done a stint at grumman after

1909
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:09,440
being at kaulsman

1910
01:19:13,270 --> 01:19:10,960
and they get a call from the grumman

1911
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:13,280
astronomer lou smith saying greg

1912
01:19:17,669 --> 01:19:16,159
we're doing an experiment on apollo 13

1913
01:19:18,870 --> 01:19:17,679
we're calling all of our friends and

1914
01:19:21,430 --> 01:19:18,880
observatories

1915
01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:21,440
to observe this and if you see the movie

1916
01:19:26,630 --> 01:19:23,679
apollo 13 i know most

1917
01:19:27,669 --> 01:19:26,640
viewers probably have in the very

1918
01:19:30,630 --> 01:19:27,679
beginning of the movie

1919
01:19:32,630 --> 01:19:30,640
there was a urine duck that's yeah

1920
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:32,640
clifton's leaving earth orbit and people

1921
01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:33,280
say

1922
01:19:36,310 --> 01:19:35,040
why are they doing that it's not

1923
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:36,320
explained

1924
01:19:39,350 --> 01:19:38,480
they don't get rid of that little bit of

1925
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:39,360
extra weight

1926
01:19:42,630 --> 01:19:41,360
it was an experiment what they were

1927
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,640
doing was creating

1928
01:19:46,390 --> 01:19:44,880
an artificial comet they asked the

1929
01:19:49,350 --> 01:19:46,400
astronauts to pee

1930
01:19:50,390 --> 01:19:49,360
if you can if i can use that word on the

1931
01:19:53,110 --> 01:19:50,400
urinate

1932
01:19:53,750 --> 01:19:53,120
on the podcast and then they collected

1933
01:19:56,229 --> 01:19:53,760
it and they

1934
01:19:57,430 --> 01:19:56,239
built it into space and it began to

1935
01:20:00,070 --> 01:19:57,440
expand

1936
01:20:02,070 --> 01:20:00,080
and i got the telescope going the 20

1937
01:20:04,310 --> 01:20:02,080
inch refractor and also we had students

1938
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:04,320
on the six inch refractor

1939
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:06,480
having a lot of fun with it and we could

1940
01:20:11,189 --> 01:20:08,400
see you can see that the apollo

1941
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:11,199
spacecraft in the center is a solid dot

1942
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:14,239
you can see the three fairings spinning

1943
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:15,199
in space

1944
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:17,360
twinkling like stars and then you can

1945
01:20:22,149 --> 01:20:19,040
see this expanding

1946
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:22,159
beautiful star-like hazy object and then

1947
01:20:25,990 --> 01:20:23,520
the phone rang

1948
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:26,000
and roger rosenbacher who was the senior

1949
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:27,040
observer

1950
01:20:30,070 --> 01:20:28,880
looked at me and left he said greg this

1951
01:20:32,870 --> 01:20:30,080
is your project

1952
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:32,880
you're taking the calls tonight i picked

1953
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:33,840
it up

1954
01:20:40,390 --> 01:20:37,120
guys on the other end hello

1955
01:20:43,430 --> 01:20:40,400
who am i speaking to i'm greg maltloff

1956
01:20:46,470 --> 01:20:43,440
i'm astronomer at wesleyan and who am i

1957
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:46,480
speaking to he gave his name you have

1958
01:20:49,590 --> 01:20:49,199
something you'd like to talk about yes i

1959
01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:49,600
am

1960
01:20:54,629 --> 01:20:52,800
observing a ufo it is about 30 degrees

1961
01:20:56,629 --> 01:20:54,639
above the southern horizon

1962
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:56,639
it is as bright as the second magnitude

1963
01:21:01,110 --> 01:20:58,400
star

1964
01:21:02,229 --> 01:21:01,120
then said we're observing the same thing

1965
01:21:05,669 --> 01:21:02,239
what you are seeing

1966
01:21:09,270 --> 01:21:05,679
is a urine dump from apollo 14

1967
01:21:10,229 --> 01:21:09,280
when they were fired and then he said

1968
01:21:12,310 --> 01:21:10,239
very loud

1969
01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:12,320
well then you're in the conspiracy and

1970
01:21:17,030 --> 01:21:14,480
the phone swam down

1971
01:21:19,270 --> 01:21:17,040
later on somebody called back maybe the

1972
01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:19,280
same guy about the same thing

1973
01:21:24,310 --> 01:21:22,800
so i became a little negative about ufo

1974
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:24,320
conspiracy theories

1975
01:21:31,510 --> 01:21:27,600
people like them and then later on in

1976
01:21:34,070 --> 01:21:31,520
1986 my wife steve bangs who's an artist

1977
01:21:36,390 --> 01:21:34,080
was working as an artist for the

1978
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:36,400
development of parks and recreation

1979
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:38,800
in new york city and they needed an

1980
01:21:43,110 --> 01:21:40,800
astronomer in the parks because

1981
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:43,120
when holly's comment came by they had no

1982
01:21:46,629 --> 01:21:44,000
idea what to do

1983
01:21:49,990 --> 01:21:46,639
they were embarrassed so they hired me

1984
01:21:53,189 --> 01:21:50,000
as a consulting astronomer

1985
01:21:54,229 --> 01:21:53,199
and um did this for four years until

1986
01:21:56,310 --> 01:21:54,239
there was

1987
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:56,320
a financial crisis that we all got laid

1988
01:22:02,790 --> 01:21:59,679
off but before that in 1990

1989
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:02,800
there was the casino park

1990
01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:07,440
ufo incident three nurses and queens

1991
01:22:11,110 --> 01:22:10,080
sitting in their bus going home from the

1992
01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:11,120
local hospital

1993
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:13,760
after shift late at night they look over

1994
01:22:18,070 --> 01:22:15,520
with christina park

1995
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,080
which is not far from queen's college i

1996
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:20,400
got my bachelor's degree

1997
01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:23,360
and they say oh my god there are lights

1998
01:22:27,910 --> 01:22:24,960
over the park

1999
01:22:29,590 --> 01:22:27,920
we have to report this to somebody they

2000
01:22:30,790 --> 01:22:29,600
could have called the police

2001
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:30,800
they could have called the park

2002
01:22:36,830 --> 01:22:33,840
department they could have called nasa

2003
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:36,840
no they brought in a professional

2004
01:22:42,310 --> 01:22:39,920
ufologist we lost such people

2005
01:22:43,350 --> 01:22:42,320
the professional loophole against walks

2006
01:22:45,910 --> 01:22:43,360
back

2007
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:45,920
in that direction and he keeps walking

2008
01:22:50,310 --> 01:22:46,800
until he comes

2009
01:22:53,430 --> 01:22:50,320
to dead spots in the grass he said well

2010
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:53,440
this is where ufos landed then he takes

2011
01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:54,560
out his compass

2012
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:57,760
and he looks at the lamppost near the

2013
01:23:03,030 --> 01:22:59,920
near them and he says the oldies are

2014
01:23:05,990 --> 01:23:03,040
magnetized that's from the ufo

2015
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:06,000
and he starts getting enormous amount of

2016
01:23:09,990 --> 01:23:08,159
attention on the local press

2017
01:23:12,390 --> 01:23:10,000
and the queens below these local

2018
01:23:15,189 --> 01:23:12,400
presidents are for free

2019
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:15,199
but of course people pick them up and

2020
01:23:19,590 --> 01:23:16,960
they read them for the ads

2021
01:23:20,310 --> 01:23:19,600
and the advertisers are spending good

2022
01:23:23,030 --> 01:23:20,320
money

2023
01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:23,040
because the circulation is going up the

2024
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:24,320
parts department says

2025
01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:27,440
greg you have to get in there

2026
01:23:30,709 --> 01:23:29,600
and you have to find out the truth of

2027
01:23:33,110 --> 01:23:30,719
this

2028
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:33,120
so i went in i first of all went in with

2029
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:34,000
the ranger

2030
01:23:37,510 --> 01:23:37,120
for every reason the lights if you had

2031
01:23:41,110 --> 01:23:37,520
seen

2032
01:23:43,510 --> 01:23:41,120
park

2033
01:23:44,709 --> 01:23:43,520
over the over the pool these were not

2034
01:23:47,270 --> 01:23:44,719
the lights

2035
01:23:48,070 --> 01:23:47,280
that had come down over the landing

2036
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:48,080
zones

2037
01:23:55,910 --> 01:23:52,320
took samples

2038
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:55,920
of the rock and yes the ufologist was

2039
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:57,120
correct

2040
01:24:00,149 --> 01:23:58,560
some of the rock samples are very

2041
01:24:06,070 --> 01:24:00,159
strange

2042
01:24:09,189 --> 01:24:08,070
diatom i think i forget the name of the

2043
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:09,199
rock

2044
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:11,440
but it's usually only found in aruba

2045
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:12,880
they said what is this doing

2046
01:24:16,790 --> 01:24:15,520
here well they recent i write research a

2047
01:24:19,189 --> 01:24:16,800
little bit more

2048
01:24:21,669 --> 01:24:19,199
and i learned that the park was

2049
01:24:26,149 --> 01:24:21,679
renovating their tennis courts

2050
01:24:28,830 --> 01:24:26,159
and this particular rock is

2051
01:24:30,070 --> 01:24:28,840
an ingredient of a tennis court so

2052
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:30,080
obviously

2053
01:24:35,669 --> 01:24:33,280
there's been a spill from a park truck

2054
01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:35,679
and i got to know parkies pretty well

2055
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:38,960
you never admit that you killed grass

2056
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:42,400
maybe the aliens did it in the lamppost

2057
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:43,600
the ufologist was

2058
01:24:47,590 --> 01:24:46,800
absolutely correct about this the land

2059
01:24:50,709 --> 01:24:47,600
post

2060
01:24:53,270 --> 01:24:50,719
near the landing sites led landing sites

2061
01:24:53,990 --> 01:24:53,280
will magnetize but with the ranger i

2062
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,000
walked through

2063
01:24:57,990 --> 01:24:56,400
and checked many many other lampposts

2064
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:58,000
they were all magnetized

2065
01:25:01,590 --> 01:25:00,480
so the ufo comes back to play tennis

2066
01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:01,600
every night

2067
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:04,560
one possibility or it was something like

2068
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:05,760
a transformer

2069
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:09,040
in every casino park lamppost

2070
01:25:12,950 --> 01:25:11,520
by elkins razor you take the simplest of

2071
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:12,960
the possibilities

2072
01:25:18,790 --> 01:25:16,239
so i then decided you really

2073
01:25:20,709 --> 01:25:18,800
can't trust the local press too much

2074
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:20,719
about this

2075
01:25:26,470 --> 01:25:23,600
for years go on a few years ago there's

2076
01:25:29,830 --> 01:25:26,480
a release by the pentagon

2077
01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:29,840
and this is on tv and on the computer

2078
01:25:34,950 --> 01:25:31,760
and you get to see

2079
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:34,960
two navy fighter pilots and then

2080
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:38,400
an f18 i believe off the coast of

2081
01:25:44,070 --> 01:25:39,360
california

2082
01:25:45,990 --> 01:25:44,080
flying from their carrier have

2083
01:25:48,550 --> 01:25:46,000
and they not only did they see it they

2084
01:25:52,830 --> 01:25:48,560
interact with the screen

2085
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:52,840
um they caught it like a tic tac

2086
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:56,800
tick and it also appears on radar

2087
01:26:00,310 --> 01:25:59,440
about their radar screen in the ship now

2088
01:26:03,990 --> 01:26:00,320
some people

2089
01:26:05,910 --> 01:26:04,000
in the study field notably

2090
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:05,920
our friend steph justice came out and

2091
01:26:10,390 --> 01:26:08,080
said well maybe they made a mistake

2092
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:10,400
maybe they're looking at reflections in

2093
01:26:15,270 --> 01:26:12,480
the window and stuff like that

2094
01:26:15,910 --> 01:26:15,280
i heard that that was on public radio

2095
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:15,920
yeah

2096
01:26:19,270 --> 01:26:18,480
i think people like the city people have

2097
01:26:21,270 --> 01:26:19,280
to do this

2098
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:21,280
they don't want to be identified as

2099
01:26:24,070 --> 01:26:22,320
morphologists

2100
01:26:25,430 --> 01:26:24,080
which is why they don't like talking

2101
01:26:28,470 --> 01:26:25,440
about the possibility

2102
01:26:30,709 --> 01:26:28,480
of aliens in the solar system but

2103
01:26:32,550 --> 01:26:30,719
you know i looked at that said you have

2104
01:26:36,149 --> 01:26:32,560
to take this phenomenon

2105
01:26:39,510 --> 01:26:36,159
seriously and you put that together with

2106
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:39,520
habitable planets all over the place

2107
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,960
with what we're knowing about

2108
01:26:44,790 --> 01:26:42,960
interstellar transit times

2109
01:26:47,669 --> 01:26:44,800
even without primitive understanding

2110
01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:47,679
today with what we know about the ages

2111
01:26:52,229 --> 01:26:50,320
of local stars what we know about the

2112
01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:52,239
relative and relative frequency

2113
01:26:57,030 --> 01:26:55,360
of close stellar encounters yeah i'd say

2114
01:26:58,629 --> 01:26:57,040
there's a good possibility that they

2115
01:27:01,350 --> 01:26:58,639
could be in the kuiper belt

2116
01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:01,360
now if they're in the kuiper belt you no

2117
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:02,560
longer can argue

2118
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:05,040
that they can't visit the earth because

2119
01:27:08,070 --> 01:27:06,320
their

2120
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:08,080
speed of light limitation which may or

2121
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:10,400
may not apply to them who knows

2122
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:13,840
but okay then you have to say

2123
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:15,600
why are they visiting what would they be

2124
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:18,239
visiting the earth for where you had avi

2125
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:19,679
lobon

2126
01:27:32,149 --> 01:27:28,870
i think that's that's close yeah

2127
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:32,159
in hawaii yeah he

2128
01:27:35,590 --> 01:27:34,080
brings up some very interesting points

2129
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:35,600
he says okay

2130
01:27:38,790 --> 01:27:37,840
this thing does seem to look like a life

2131
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:38,800
sale it doesn't

2132
01:27:43,110 --> 01:27:42,000
really seem to look like a comet and

2133
01:27:45,110 --> 01:27:43,120
also it comes

2134
01:27:47,430 --> 01:27:45,120
from a point in the sky which is

2135
01:27:50,790 --> 01:27:47,440
basically the centroid

2136
01:27:51,830 --> 01:27:50,800
of all local stars other people have

2137
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:51,840
said well you know

2138
01:27:55,030 --> 01:27:53,840
it's very unlikely this is an

2139
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:55,040
interstellar probe

2140
01:27:59,189 --> 01:27:57,360
because it would take tens of thousands

2141
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:59,199
or hundreds of thousands of years to get

2142
01:28:02,149 --> 01:28:00,000
here

2143
01:28:05,350 --> 01:28:02,159
but what if it's an interstellar probe

2144
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:05,360
simply designed to get our attention

2145
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:08,400
in other words launched locally to be

2146
01:28:12,470 --> 01:28:09,520
observed locally

2147
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:12,480
and then maybe retrieved and come back

2148
01:28:17,590 --> 01:28:14,080
people don't want to talk about that

2149
01:28:18,149 --> 01:28:17,600
because i think i think there's a lot of

2150
01:28:21,990 --> 01:28:18,159
people

2151
01:28:26,470 --> 01:28:22,000
in the realm

2152
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:28,870
who would like to think that we have

2153
01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:30,080
totally free will

2154
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:31,679
that we are discovering things for the

2155
01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:33,679
first time

2156
01:28:38,950 --> 01:28:37,120
that there is nobody out there nearby to

2157
01:28:42,310 --> 01:28:38,960
interfere with us

2158
01:28:45,350 --> 01:28:42,320
and there might be you know it is very

2159
01:28:47,910 --> 01:28:45,360
not outside of the range of possibility

2160
01:28:48,950 --> 01:28:47,920
that there could be millions or even

2161
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:48,960
billions

2162
01:28:52,709 --> 01:28:52,080
of small space habitats in the kuiper

2163
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:52,719
belt

2164
01:28:57,990 --> 01:28:55,920
and we have no idea we can't detect them

2165
01:29:01,110 --> 01:28:58,000
there could be smaller objects

2166
01:29:04,709 --> 01:29:01,120
probes or even small bases much

2167
01:29:07,669 --> 01:29:04,719
nearer be they dead probes dead bases

2168
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:07,679
are still existing i have no idea but

2169
01:29:12,229 --> 01:29:09,360
you have to be open to this

2170
01:29:14,550 --> 01:29:12,239
universe is a lot faster and a lot

2171
01:29:16,470 --> 01:29:14,560
stranger than we could imagine

2172
01:29:18,149 --> 01:29:16,480
now let me ask you this the phones are

2173
01:29:18,790 --> 01:29:18,159
open by the way if anyone wants to call

2174
01:29:22,870 --> 01:29:18,800
in

2175
01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:22,880
um that number is 855-472-5483 bill is

2176
01:29:27,590 --> 01:29:24,400
standing by

2177
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:27,600
um so let me ask you this

2178
01:29:33,430 --> 01:29:30,880
why why would you think that we would be

2179
01:29:34,629 --> 01:29:33,440
so special that we'd be observed if uh

2180
01:29:38,070 --> 01:29:34,639
if life could be

2181
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:38,080
frequent and everywhere only because

2182
01:29:41,350 --> 01:29:40,560
they're they're close and we're closed i

2183
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:41,360
mean

2184
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:43,520
they could have come to our type about

2185
01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:45,840
any time within the last million years

2186
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:47,440
and suddenly they're saying well you

2187
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:50,000
know there's somebody there who's

2188
01:29:52,709 --> 01:29:51,120
interesting i mean they're like

2189
01:29:54,310 --> 01:29:52,719
intelligent termites

2190
01:29:55,910 --> 01:29:54,320
let's go mess with them a little bit

2191
01:29:58,550 --> 01:29:55,920
abduct them and

2192
01:29:59,669 --> 01:29:58,560
kill a few problems whatever i mean you

2193
01:30:02,790 --> 01:29:59,679
know

2194
01:30:04,950 --> 01:30:02,800
you can't you you because of what's

2195
01:30:06,870 --> 01:30:04,960
going on with the pentagon papers

2196
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:06,880
by the way i tried to go through that

2197
01:30:12,229 --> 01:30:08,320
cia file

2198
01:30:14,070 --> 01:30:12,239
and i gave up anybody who wants to

2199
01:30:15,910 --> 01:30:14,080
find what's useful i'm sure there's good

2200
01:30:18,790 --> 01:30:15,920
stuff but it's so

2201
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:18,800
big and so bright and there's so much

2202
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:20,400
which is not good which is not

2203
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:23,760
relevant so by all means somebody should

2204
01:30:28,709 --> 01:30:24,800
go through that

2205
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:28,719
and pick out the good stuff from them

2206
01:30:32,470 --> 01:30:31,280
yeah i know uh there's a guy named john

2207
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:32,480
greenwald who's

2208
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:35,760
has these all up online uh but there's

2209
01:30:38,950 --> 01:30:37,600
hundreds of thousands of documents or

2210
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:38,960
something like that right

2211
01:30:43,750 --> 01:30:42,159
something like that it's amazing some

2212
01:30:47,110 --> 01:30:43,760
people say well maybe

2213
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:47,120
these things are advanced technology on

2214
01:30:52,229 --> 01:30:48,560
the planet

2215
01:30:54,870 --> 01:30:52,239
well if russia had that

2216
01:30:56,629 --> 01:30:54,880
why would they feel an aircraft carrier

2217
01:30:59,110 --> 01:30:56,639
that breaks down

2218
01:31:00,629 --> 01:30:59,120
and needs the tugboat every time it goes

2219
01:31:03,030 --> 01:31:00,639
to syria

2220
01:31:05,110 --> 01:31:03,040
that has toilets that back up making the

2221
01:31:07,669 --> 01:31:05,120
crew very uncomfortable

2222
01:31:09,510 --> 01:31:07,679
and is so designed that there's 27

2223
01:31:10,310 --> 01:31:09,520
fighter planes two of them fall into the

2224
01:31:12,790 --> 01:31:10,320
ocean

2225
01:31:13,990 --> 01:31:12,800
during during sorties and the crews have

2226
01:31:16,470 --> 01:31:14,000
to be rescued

2227
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:16,480
if they could fly with these ufos why

2228
01:31:22,390 --> 01:31:18,159
are they doing that

2229
01:31:24,550 --> 01:31:22,400
why are the chinese experimenting with

2230
01:31:26,550 --> 01:31:24,560
aircraft carriers and they have a

2231
01:31:28,390 --> 01:31:26,560
fighter plane flying on this thing which

2232
01:31:30,390 --> 01:31:28,400
is vertical takeoff and landing

2233
01:31:31,510 --> 01:31:30,400
which is nowhere near as good as our

2234
01:31:33,350 --> 01:31:31,520
f-35

2235
01:31:34,550 --> 01:31:33,360
but government give me a break because

2236
01:31:38,229 --> 01:31:34,560
the chinese

2237
01:31:40,070 --> 01:31:38,239
and the um russians don't have access to

2238
01:31:40,790 --> 01:31:40,080
this technology who does the north

2239
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:40,800
koreans

2240
01:31:44,790 --> 01:31:43,280
i certainly hope not the iranians i

2241
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:44,800
don't think that might be a good idea

2242
01:31:49,110 --> 01:31:45,360
either

2243
01:31:52,629 --> 01:31:49,120
but whatever to me it's very very very

2244
01:31:54,550 --> 01:31:52,639
unlikely uh one of

2245
01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:54,560
my friend my colleagues i think it's

2246
01:32:02,870 --> 01:31:56,000
eric davis

2247
01:32:05,030 --> 01:32:02,880
from the discovery institute and

2248
01:32:06,070 --> 01:32:05,040
my wife was in the show had a whole art

2249
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:06,080
in the show at the

2250
01:32:10,470 --> 01:32:08,800
at the museum in las vegas he gave him a

2251
01:32:14,470 --> 01:32:10,480
little tour of the city

2252
01:32:17,590 --> 01:32:14,480
he was very nice about this but

2253
01:32:21,510 --> 01:32:17,600
eric also worked for um

2254
01:32:24,390 --> 01:32:21,520
bill um billingham

2255
01:32:26,610 --> 01:32:24,400
are you talking about uh bigelow bigelow

2256
01:32:28,709 --> 01:32:26,620
he worked

2257
01:32:31,590 --> 01:32:28,719
[Music]

2258
01:32:32,149 --> 01:32:31,600
and when he was working for bigelow he

2259
01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:32,159
was

2260
01:32:38,790 --> 01:32:36,400
trying to do scientific studies and ufo

2261
01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:38,800
incidents and i believe it was he it

2262
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:40,080
might have been somebody else

2263
01:32:43,189 --> 01:32:42,320
interviewed a four-star brigadier

2264
01:32:45,110 --> 01:32:43,199
general

2265
01:32:47,270 --> 01:32:45,120
now i would bet this was pete warden

2266
01:32:49,030 --> 01:32:47,280
knowing pete wasn't from breakthrough

2267
01:32:51,669 --> 01:32:49,040
you're talking about the wilson and the

2268
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:51,679
wilson documents and they're

2269
01:32:55,990 --> 01:32:54,239
i'm not 100 sure if that really happened

2270
01:32:56,470 --> 01:32:56,000
there's something really peculiar about

2271
01:33:00,229 --> 01:32:56,480
that

2272
01:33:03,830 --> 01:33:00,239
whatever it is if it did happen yeah

2273
01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:03,840
oh yes we have an alien craft

2274
01:33:07,669 --> 01:33:07,040
because in area 51 we're keeping it

2275
01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:07,679
secret

2276
01:33:11,110 --> 01:33:09,920
we only roll out new technology when we

2277
01:33:14,149 --> 01:33:11,120
need it

2278
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:14,159
well does that solve it no yeah

2279
01:33:18,149 --> 01:33:17,120
because the brigadier general maybe pete

2280
01:33:22,229 --> 01:33:18,159
warden

2281
01:33:25,110 --> 01:33:22,239
could be putting out misinformation

2282
01:33:25,910 --> 01:33:25,120
foreign power would think twice or ten

2283
01:33:28,870 --> 01:33:25,920
times

2284
01:33:30,229 --> 01:33:28,880
about messing with the united states who

2285
01:33:32,550 --> 01:33:30,239
could simply bring out

2286
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:32,560
another bit of technology a million

2287
01:33:35,110 --> 01:33:34,320
years or a billion years ahead of what

2288
01:33:37,990 --> 01:33:35,120
we have

2289
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:38,000
so you know information could make a

2290
01:33:41,110 --> 01:33:38,880
difference

2291
01:33:42,310 --> 01:33:41,120
yeah yeah um i i believe you're right i

2292
01:33:45,510 --> 01:33:42,320
mean that's that's

2293
01:33:47,189 --> 01:33:45,520
uh been um an mo for a long time you

2294
01:33:49,510 --> 01:33:47,199
know the disinformation for

2295
01:33:50,229 --> 01:33:49,520
power you know that type of thing but

2296
01:33:52,629 --> 01:33:50,239
you know

2297
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:52,639
along those lines i think this is an

2298
01:33:54,950 --> 01:33:54,239
interesting conversation along those

2299
01:33:56,629 --> 01:33:54,960
lines

2300
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:56,639
um you know a lot of people have seen

2301
01:34:01,750 --> 01:33:58,719
these you know these big

2302
01:34:02,950 --> 01:34:01,760
black triangles that hover i mean this

2303
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:02,960
is reported everywhere

2304
01:34:07,669 --> 01:34:06,239
you know like sometimes hundreds and

2305
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:07,679
hundreds of yards

2306
01:34:11,030 --> 01:34:10,080
you know maybe even a mile wide these

2307
01:34:12,870 --> 01:34:11,040
reports

2308
01:34:15,030 --> 01:34:12,880
uh like the phoenix lights for instance

2309
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:15,040
but there's a number of them

2310
01:34:19,590 --> 01:34:17,360
but a lot of times people will say oh

2311
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:19,600
that's just some secret military

2312
01:34:22,790 --> 01:34:21,280
yeah uh well this thing could float and

2313
01:34:25,669 --> 01:34:22,800
then it shoots off like

2314
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:25,679
well if that's just like you said if

2315
01:34:29,590 --> 01:34:26,320
that's

2316
01:34:32,070 --> 01:34:29,600
if we do have that technology um

2317
01:34:33,110 --> 01:34:32,080
wouldn't we have used it by now you know

2318
01:34:34,709 --> 01:34:33,120
or

2319
01:34:36,629 --> 01:34:34,719
at least we would have used it in

2320
01:34:37,590 --> 01:34:36,639
afghanistan rather than being there for

2321
01:34:39,990 --> 01:34:37,600
20 years

2322
01:34:44,470 --> 01:34:40,000
and not exactly anything you know i mean

2323
01:34:52,149 --> 01:34:47,750
they have this great conspiracy but

2324
01:34:56,950 --> 01:34:55,030
yeah yeah here's another another

2325
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:56,960
hypothetical question to ask

2326
01:35:04,149 --> 01:35:00,400
you um i always think that we think

2327
01:35:07,830 --> 01:35:04,159
and uh we compare

2328
01:35:08,390 --> 01:35:07,840
what we think an alien civilization

2329
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:08,400
would do

2330
01:35:12,149 --> 01:35:10,560
or not do you know violent or not

2331
01:35:14,310 --> 01:35:12,159
violent this or that

2332
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:14,320
but we always do it in the way of human

2333
01:35:18,790 --> 01:35:15,199
thinking

2334
01:35:20,629 --> 01:35:18,800
yeah you know um would you agree

2335
01:35:21,990 --> 01:35:20,639
that we have no idea what type of

2336
01:35:23,830 --> 01:35:22,000
thinking another

2337
01:35:25,590 --> 01:35:23,840
civilization would have i wouldn't even

2338
01:35:27,750 --> 01:35:25,600
take an example

2339
01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:27,760
if you have a wet planet like mars which

2340
01:35:32,629 --> 01:35:28,800
has an atmosphere

2341
01:35:36,149 --> 01:35:32,639
there was no reason why creatures like

2342
01:35:39,109 --> 01:35:36,159
spiders could grow to a much

2343
01:35:40,310 --> 01:35:39,119
larger size maybe who knows maybe they

2344
01:35:42,470 --> 01:35:40,320
were intelligent

2345
01:35:43,750 --> 01:35:42,480
arrhythmias spiders running around the

2346
01:35:47,910 --> 01:35:43,760
galaxy

2347
01:35:50,470 --> 01:35:47,920
now my set of ethics human ethics say

2348
01:35:51,270 --> 01:35:50,480
if i have an intimate relationship with

2349
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:51,280
a woman

2350
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:53,360
or she has an intimate relationship with

2351
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:54,719
me we're going to treat

2352
01:35:57,750 --> 01:35:56,880
each other respectfully and everybody is

2353
01:36:00,390 --> 01:35:57,760
going home

2354
01:36:01,030 --> 01:36:00,400
to go home afterwards and have dinner

2355
01:36:04,550 --> 01:36:01,040
and

2356
01:36:06,629 --> 01:36:04,560
be friendly but if you're a spider

2357
01:36:08,830 --> 01:36:06,639
that set of ethics doesn't work or if

2358
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:08,840
you are evolved from a

2359
01:36:13,510 --> 01:36:11,679
um praying mantis

2360
01:36:14,950 --> 01:36:13,520
because in cases like this the male

2361
01:36:18,550 --> 01:36:14,960
better be very careful

2362
01:36:22,390 --> 01:36:18,560
because while he's feeling off the glow

2363
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:22,400
he may eat him that's right

2364
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:24,880
this is the ethics of that particular

2365
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:25,760
species

2366
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:29,760
is why

2367
01:36:37,189 --> 01:36:33,280
the klingons in um star trek

2368
01:36:40,709 --> 01:36:37,199
are probably based upon the um

2369
01:36:41,830 --> 01:36:40,719
what are they called a type of catalytic

2370
01:36:45,830 --> 01:36:41,840
creatures and

2371
01:36:48,149 --> 01:36:45,840
larry nibbens really um war with the

2372
01:36:50,390 --> 01:36:48,159
but i'm not gonna i'm not gonna because

2373
01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:50,400
i'm talking now i'm not down there

2374
01:36:53,510 --> 01:36:52,159
my memory isn't working the way it

2375
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:53,520
usually does

2376
01:36:57,350 --> 01:36:55,920
but these creatures they're cat-like

2377
01:36:59,109 --> 01:36:57,360
they think about things

2378
01:37:00,950 --> 01:36:59,119
from the point of view of feline

2379
01:37:03,910 --> 01:37:00,960
dominance not the way

2380
01:37:04,390 --> 01:37:03,920
humans do you know you surrender to a

2381
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:04,400
cat

2382
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:07,280
you might find yourself in a totally

2383
01:37:10,550 --> 01:37:08,719
different situation than if you

2384
01:37:14,629 --> 01:37:10,560
surrender to a human

2385
01:37:16,390 --> 01:37:14,639
so if um we

2386
01:37:18,550 --> 01:37:16,400
i know i don't know if you know what

2387
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:18,560
seth i know

2388
01:37:22,390 --> 01:37:20,400
uh another guy from the setting

2389
01:37:26,870 --> 01:37:22,400
institute

2390
01:37:29,669 --> 01:37:26,880
um hold on a second he's a sociologist

2391
01:37:32,229 --> 01:37:29,679
no no i only know seth and and jill

2392
01:37:35,510 --> 01:37:33,669
he's come up with the concept of

2393
01:37:38,550 --> 01:37:35,520
altruism that

2394
01:37:41,510 --> 01:37:38,560
an alien civilization will only survive

2395
01:37:42,709 --> 01:37:41,520
for a very long period of doug vakruge

2396
01:37:44,709 --> 01:37:42,719
will only survive

2397
01:37:46,629 --> 01:37:44,719
for a long enough period of time to

2398
01:37:49,830 --> 01:37:46,639
contact or fly somewhere

2399
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:49,840
if it is altruistic and basically the

2400
01:37:54,070 --> 01:37:51,600
concept of altruism

2401
01:37:56,790 --> 01:37:54,080
might be specie dependent we don't know

2402
01:38:03,270 --> 01:37:59,830
wow yeah and you know i mean there's

2403
01:38:06,550 --> 01:38:03,280
also there's a lot of speculation like

2404
01:38:08,550 --> 01:38:06,560
okay whatever it is that's visiting us

2405
01:38:09,990 --> 01:38:08,560
i think you mentioned this even you know

2406
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:10,000
what do they want you know what do they

2407
01:38:14,709 --> 01:38:11,679
want why are they here

2408
01:38:15,669 --> 01:38:14,719
and uh you know i mean that that can be

2409
01:38:17,910 --> 01:38:15,679
a scary thought

2410
01:38:20,149 --> 01:38:17,920
you know if you think about it and if

2411
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:20,159
the air force can't control the skies

2412
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:23,440
you know um you know that

2413
01:38:26,950 --> 01:38:25,600
a lot of people speculate that's why

2414
01:38:29,590 --> 01:38:26,960
it's not talked about

2415
01:38:31,030 --> 01:38:29,600
much because how would they possibly

2416
01:38:32,070 --> 01:38:31,040
explain they have no control over

2417
01:38:34,629 --> 01:38:32,080
something

2418
01:38:36,709 --> 01:38:34,639
that's a very good point that's why we

2419
01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:36,719
have misinformation

2420
01:38:41,510 --> 01:38:40,000
yeah that may also be why for so many

2421
01:38:44,709 --> 01:38:41,520
decades

2422
01:38:47,590 --> 01:38:44,719
it was a no-no for a military fire

2423
01:38:48,470 --> 01:38:47,600
a commercial fire or a private fire to

2424
01:38:52,390 --> 01:38:48,480
admit

2425
01:38:54,790 --> 01:38:52,400
that they've seen things i once had a

2426
01:38:56,950 --> 01:38:54,800
brother of somebody a guy we knew who

2427
01:38:59,750 --> 01:38:56,960
was a commercial pilot i asked you ever

2428
01:39:02,550 --> 01:38:59,760
see a ufo he said i don't even admit it

2429
01:39:02,870 --> 01:39:02,560
and there was a private pilot who told

2430
01:39:06,070 --> 01:39:02,880
me

2431
01:39:09,990 --> 01:39:06,080
he has seen them but he's never

2432
01:39:13,030 --> 01:39:10,000
he's never claimed it to the tower

2433
01:39:13,510 --> 01:39:13,040
and the reason is then people might say

2434
01:39:14,870 --> 01:39:13,520
well

2435
01:39:16,629 --> 01:39:14,880
there's something wrong with this guy's

2436
01:39:18,310 --> 01:39:16,639
perception he shouldn't be in the

2437
01:39:20,310 --> 01:39:18,320
driver's seat anymore

2438
01:39:22,149 --> 01:39:20,320
or takes away his flying license or

2439
01:39:23,830 --> 01:39:22,159
something like that

2440
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:23,840
yeah that happened i can't remember it's

2441
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:25,280
jal it's a

2442
01:39:34,550 --> 01:39:31,350
there was a shipping flight not a

2443
01:39:37,030 --> 01:39:34,560
commercial passenger flight

2444
01:39:37,990 --> 01:39:37,040
and that was over alaska there was a 300

2445
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:38,000
some odd mile

2446
01:39:41,350 --> 01:39:39,760
encounter that was something that looked

2447
01:39:44,550 --> 01:39:41,360
like a a large

2448
01:39:46,709 --> 01:39:44,560
walnut and uh and had little like

2449
01:39:47,669 --> 01:39:46,719
baby ships type going around this thing

2450
01:39:50,709 --> 01:39:47,679
and so they

2451
01:39:53,109 --> 01:39:50,719
they did it they went around

2452
01:39:55,030 --> 01:39:53,119
out of their course and the thing

2453
01:39:56,310 --> 01:39:55,040
followed them and actually like circled

2454
01:39:57,109 --> 01:39:56,320
around it was all on radar and

2455
01:40:00,149 --> 01:39:57,119
everything

2456
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:00,159
well that pilot had a desk job

2457
01:40:06,229 --> 01:40:03,760
after that he was reporting it live

2458
01:40:08,709 --> 01:40:06,239
uh but but he did get back uh back to

2459
01:40:11,830 --> 01:40:08,719
flying again 30 years of experience

2460
01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:11,840
and that happened and yeah no

2461
01:40:16,470 --> 01:40:14,560
it wouldn't happen anymore because

2462
01:40:18,149 --> 01:40:16,480
because of the pentagon releases

2463
01:40:19,750 --> 01:40:18,159
i think at this point it's taken

2464
01:40:21,350 --> 01:40:19,760
seriously yes

2465
01:40:22,950 --> 01:40:21,360
i think that's uh i think that's been a

2466
01:40:24,229 --> 01:40:22,960
great thing and i'm glad i'm doing this

2467
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:24,239
show during this

2468
01:40:28,229 --> 01:40:26,800
this whole time because i'm not so

2469
01:40:30,550 --> 01:40:28,239
embarrassed to admit that i do

2470
01:40:32,149 --> 01:40:30,560
a uh a show when i'm talking to someone

2471
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,159
about antiques and art

2472
01:40:35,669 --> 01:40:34,080
yeah ufos can come up i won't feel so

2473
01:40:38,790 --> 01:40:35,679
embarrassed

2474
01:40:41,350 --> 01:40:38,800
that i

2475
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:41,360
can be looked at in a different way you

2476
01:40:44,149 --> 01:40:41,920
know

2477
01:40:45,189 --> 01:40:44,159
because of while you're in you're an art

2478
01:40:48,790 --> 01:40:45,199
expert and you

2479
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:48,800
like ufos so

2480
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:51,760
what do you think about the taboo side

2481
01:40:59,590 --> 01:40:54,159
of that i mean you must have seen

2482
01:41:02,149 --> 01:40:59,600
a lot of that over the years oh my okay

2483
01:41:03,910 --> 01:41:02,159
one of the interesting phenomenon in

2484
01:41:06,310 --> 01:41:03,920
this associated with this is the

2485
01:41:09,270 --> 01:41:06,320
abduction phenomenon

2486
01:41:11,030 --> 01:41:09,280
and i know of two figures of a

2487
01:41:14,229 --> 01:41:11,040
mathematician and the physicist

2488
01:41:16,390 --> 01:41:14,239
would kill me if i mentioned their names

2489
01:41:18,310 --> 01:41:16,400
who have reported that they were almost

2490
01:41:20,229 --> 01:41:18,320
abducted at one point or another they

2491
01:41:22,229 --> 01:41:20,239
saw strange lights near them

2492
01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:22,239
and look like a silvery craft in one

2493
01:41:26,950 --> 01:41:23,600
case

2494
01:41:28,390 --> 01:41:26,960
and my wife she and i know of a woman

2495
01:41:30,830 --> 01:41:28,400
who i'm not going to mention her name

2496
01:41:31,990 --> 01:41:30,840
either she started life as a very

2497
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:32,000
successful

2498
01:41:35,830 --> 01:41:35,040
uh financial lawyer at war on wall

2499
01:41:39,910 --> 01:41:35,840
street

2500
01:41:43,030 --> 01:41:39,920
and she got tired of this became a

2501
01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:43,040
combination astrologer uh psychic

2502
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:45,440
and rock singer interesting combination

2503
01:41:48,550 --> 01:41:46,239
wow

2504
01:41:49,990 --> 01:41:48,560
and one of her concerts she pointed out

2505
01:41:53,350 --> 01:41:50,000
on her neck

2506
01:41:55,990 --> 01:41:53,360
the two marks that they

2507
01:41:57,910 --> 01:41:56,000
deliver when they abduct her and i spoke

2508
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:57,920
to one of her fans after this

2509
01:42:03,830 --> 01:42:00,880
and the fans had the same for what i did

2510
01:42:06,950 --> 01:42:03,840
was a boyfriend a little kinky

2511
01:42:08,629 --> 01:42:06,960
so i had strange feelings about the

2512
01:42:12,390 --> 01:42:08,639
abduction

2513
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:12,400
uh phenomenon then see my wife see bangs

2514
01:42:16,470 --> 01:42:13,679
was in an art show

2515
01:42:18,790 --> 01:42:16,480
in the chelsea section of brooklyn a

2516
01:42:20,709 --> 01:42:18,800
couple of years after that

2517
01:42:22,790 --> 01:42:20,719
and there's a woman who attended the

2518
01:42:24,310 --> 01:42:22,800
show who said look i like your art it's

2519
01:42:27,030 --> 01:42:24,320
space related

2520
01:42:28,950 --> 01:42:27,040
i'm taking part in planning this con

2521
01:42:29,669 --> 01:42:28,960
conference which will be in hoboken new

2522
01:42:32,390 --> 01:42:29,679
jersey

2523
01:42:33,669 --> 01:42:32,400
in this course about city it is called

2524
01:42:40,950 --> 01:42:33,679
the conscious

2525
01:42:43,030 --> 01:42:40,960
contact can't come

2526
01:42:46,070 --> 01:42:43,040
consciousness of contact something like

2527
01:42:47,910 --> 01:42:46,080
that i forget the exact name for it

2528
01:42:49,270 --> 01:42:47,920
and she said yeah and they said maybe

2529
01:42:49,910 --> 01:42:49,280
your husband will be on one of the

2530
01:42:53,189 --> 01:42:49,920
panels

2531
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:53,199
so we went there and it was in an old

2532
01:42:57,270 --> 01:42:55,040
theater that frank sinatra used to

2533
01:43:00,870 --> 01:42:57,280
perform in which was interesting

2534
01:43:03,430 --> 01:43:00,880
and seeing her work and every other

2535
01:43:05,510 --> 01:43:03,440
piece of work in the show had this the

2536
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:05,520
standard picture of aliens with

2537
01:43:11,510 --> 01:43:08,639
big bug eyes green faces

2538
01:43:13,750 --> 01:43:11,520
sort of features shaped and we both

2539
01:43:17,669 --> 01:43:13,760
looked at each other and said oh oh

2540
01:43:19,669 --> 01:43:17,679
this is what this is what is going on

2541
01:43:20,950 --> 01:43:19,679
what's just happening in this what we're

2542
01:43:24,629 --> 01:43:20,960
involved in

2543
01:43:26,950 --> 01:43:24,639
so i went into the panel and i served in

2544
01:43:29,590 --> 01:43:26,960
it with a number of other people

2545
01:43:32,310 --> 01:43:29,600
i was the only scientist on there was a

2546
01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:32,320
writer there was a psychologist

2547
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:35,520
and in the middle of it a rather very

2548
01:43:40,070 --> 01:43:36,320
eloquent

2549
01:43:41,990 --> 01:43:40,080
ordinary suburban new busy woman gets up

2550
01:43:44,070 --> 01:43:42,000
and she says i have a problem that maybe

2551
01:43:45,990 --> 01:43:44,080
you could help me with

2552
01:43:47,430 --> 01:43:46,000
and she said i've been abducted seven

2553
01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:47,440
times

2554
01:43:51,189 --> 01:43:49,840
and each time i'm abducted i get

2555
01:43:54,550 --> 01:43:51,199
pregnant

2556
01:43:57,669 --> 01:43:54,560
they remove the fetus

2557
01:43:58,229 --> 01:43:57,679
wow i have only been able to see the

2558
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:58,239
children

2559
01:44:02,629 --> 01:44:00,880
when they abduct me the next time what

2560
01:44:04,390 --> 01:44:02,639
can why do you do about it well i

2561
01:44:07,030 --> 01:44:04,400
haven't heard of it

2562
01:44:08,310 --> 01:44:07,040
a psychologist haven't been a part of it

2563
01:44:11,430 --> 01:44:08,320
later on

2564
01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:11,440
afterwards or during a break when i was

2565
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:13,360
listening to the psychologist

2566
01:44:21,030 --> 01:44:17,920
he said well you know this is a standard

2567
01:44:24,229 --> 01:44:21,040
symptom of a woman who has been

2568
01:44:27,430 --> 01:44:24,239
sexually abused when she was a child

2569
01:44:30,629 --> 01:44:27,440
because what she does is apparently it's

2570
01:44:33,750 --> 01:44:30,639
not uncommon is

2571
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:33,760
she's being tormented basically by

2572
01:44:37,350 --> 01:44:35,040
people who are supposed to be her

2573
01:44:39,590 --> 01:44:37,360
protectors

2574
01:44:40,709 --> 01:44:39,600
family they love her but they are doing

2575
01:44:44,070 --> 01:44:40,719
something that

2576
01:44:47,590 --> 01:44:44,080
is damaging so she internalizes it

2577
01:44:50,790 --> 01:44:47,600
in this particular fashion and it's not

2578
01:44:54,070 --> 01:44:50,800
an unusual psychological aspect

2579
01:44:55,109 --> 01:44:54,080
this is not to say that people haven't

2580
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:55,119
been abducted

2581
01:45:01,109 --> 01:44:58,880
the body no case for instance

2582
01:45:02,790 --> 01:45:01,119
that's a very interesting one i don't

2583
01:45:05,830 --> 01:45:02,800
know what happened there

2584
01:45:08,950 --> 01:45:05,840
but i know that in some cases

2585
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:08,960
a psychological explanation might make

2586
01:45:13,510 --> 01:45:10,080
sense

2587
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:13,520
not at all maybe yeah yeah i mean i've

2588
01:45:17,669 --> 01:45:16,480
i've kind of bounced back and forth with

2589
01:45:21,189 --> 01:45:17,679
that whole segment

2590
01:45:22,470 --> 01:45:21,199
of of this i think it's uh i think it's

2591
01:45:25,510 --> 01:45:22,480
really

2592
01:45:27,590 --> 01:45:25,520
interesting i think it's

2593
01:45:29,669 --> 01:45:27,600
a possibility and the reason i think

2594
01:45:31,830 --> 01:45:29,679
it's a possibility at least for some

2595
01:45:34,950 --> 01:45:31,840
is that uh you know you think about it

2596
01:45:37,510 --> 01:45:34,960
if if whatever it is is visiting here

2597
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:37,520
you know why wouldn't they go a step

2598
01:45:41,830 --> 01:45:38,320
further and

2599
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:41,840
maybe examine you know and i've had uh

2600
01:45:45,510 --> 01:45:44,400
oh we have someone on the line and i

2601
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:45,520
think it's a friend

2602
01:45:50,149 --> 01:45:48,960
actually so i'm going to hang on just

2603
01:45:51,669 --> 01:45:50,159
one second here i'm going to move a

2604
01:45:53,910 --> 01:45:51,679
couple things around

2605
01:45:55,430 --> 01:45:53,920
and uh all right we're ready dean from

2606
01:45:58,950 --> 01:45:55,440
l.a

2607
01:46:00,070 --> 01:45:58,960
dean yes hey i can't i came in late is

2608
01:46:03,910 --> 01:46:00,080
this about ufos

2609
01:46:06,629 --> 01:46:03,920
just kidding uh so here's my question

2610
01:46:07,830 --> 01:46:06,639
well maybe not well yeah but okay go

2611
01:46:09,990 --> 01:46:07,840
ahead yeah

2612
01:46:11,990 --> 01:46:10,000
are all the above um so here's my

2613
01:46:15,189 --> 01:46:12,000
question it seems like these pilots

2614
01:46:16,149 --> 01:46:15,199
especially as an example fravor uh felt

2615
01:46:20,709 --> 01:46:16,159
that the

2616
01:46:21,430 --> 01:46:20,719
in other words it responds to them as

2617
01:46:24,149 --> 01:46:21,440
almost

2618
01:46:24,870 --> 01:46:24,159
like it's aware self-aware if that's the

2619
01:46:28,149 --> 01:46:24,880
case

2620
01:46:30,550 --> 01:46:28,159
do you think that they meant they mean

2621
01:46:33,109 --> 01:46:30,560
to be seen and second of all

2622
01:46:34,470 --> 01:46:33,119
the next layer is if they do is that so

2623
01:46:35,910 --> 01:46:34,480
that we are aware that we're not the

2624
01:46:36,470 --> 01:46:35,920
only ones here that there is something

2625
01:46:39,430 --> 01:46:36,480
else

2626
01:46:39,990 --> 01:46:39,440
going on and so sometimes these these

2627
01:46:41,750 --> 01:46:40,000
sightings

2628
01:46:43,830 --> 01:46:41,760
are meant to be something that just

2629
01:46:47,350 --> 01:46:43,840
makes us more aware

2630
01:46:49,109 --> 01:46:47,360
about um the possibility beyond us

2631
01:46:50,709 --> 01:46:49,119
okay i think that's an excellent

2632
01:46:54,149 --> 01:46:50,719
question and what i would say

2633
01:46:54,950 --> 01:46:54,159
is from our own experience on this

2634
01:46:57,830 --> 01:46:54,960
planet

2635
01:46:58,950 --> 01:46:57,840
when a technologically advanced culture

2636
01:47:01,830 --> 01:46:58,960
meets

2637
01:47:03,350 --> 01:47:01,840
for the first time a technologically

2638
01:47:06,390 --> 01:47:03,360
less advanced culture

2639
01:47:06,830 --> 01:47:06,400
it's curtains for the less advanced it's

2640
01:47:10,709 --> 01:47:06,840
not

2641
01:47:12,390 --> 01:47:10,719
good maybe they realize this

2642
01:47:14,149 --> 01:47:12,400
maybe particularly if they're in our

2643
01:47:17,590 --> 01:47:14,159
type of build as i think is a

2644
01:47:20,070 --> 01:47:17,600
possibility they realize that they're a

2645
01:47:23,350 --> 01:47:20,080
billion years ahead of us perhaps

2646
01:47:26,310 --> 01:47:23,360
they know that

2647
01:47:26,950 --> 01:47:26,320
what could happen if we had too early a

2648
01:47:29,109 --> 01:47:26,960
contact

2649
01:47:30,950 --> 01:47:29,119
and they are doing a lot of these things

2650
01:47:33,990 --> 01:47:30,960
to sort of prepare us

2651
01:47:36,709 --> 01:47:34,000
to put us in a mindset where

2652
01:47:37,750 --> 01:47:36,719
it won't destroy us and we can actually

2653
01:47:41,109 --> 01:47:37,760
maybe join

2654
01:47:44,149 --> 01:47:41,119
a galactic community down the line

2655
01:47:45,030 --> 01:47:44,159
but that's my take that's that's

2656
01:47:47,830 --> 01:47:45,040
assuming that

2657
01:47:50,310 --> 01:47:47,840
that they're benign and i think you have

2658
01:47:52,470 --> 01:47:50,320
to assume that they're benign because

2659
01:47:54,229 --> 01:47:52,480
if they were malign if they wanted to

2660
01:47:54,950 --> 01:47:54,239
get rid of us it would be very easy for

2661
01:47:58,550 --> 01:47:54,960
them

2662
01:48:01,430 --> 01:47:58,560
to move a few asteroids slightly

2663
01:48:03,510 --> 01:48:01,440
yeah you know that's all it would take i

2664
01:48:04,950 --> 01:48:03,520
never thought of that but you're right

2665
01:48:07,270 --> 01:48:04,960
that's all they have to do is line that

2666
01:48:10,870 --> 01:48:07,280
baby up like going bowling or something

2667
01:48:12,550 --> 01:48:10,880
yeah uh anything else dean

2668
01:48:14,149 --> 01:48:12,560
no that's it now i'm thinking about

2669
01:48:16,149 --> 01:48:14,159
bowling thinking about the big lebowski

2670
01:48:18,149 --> 01:48:16,159
and ufos it's a perfect combination

2671
01:48:20,470 --> 01:48:18,159
thank you appreciate it hey dean we'll

2672
01:48:23,669 --> 01:48:20,480
see you on monday

2673
01:48:26,229 --> 01:48:23,679
yes you will all right yeah everyone

2674
01:48:27,830 --> 01:48:26,239
yeah all right talk to you later yeah

2675
01:48:31,669 --> 01:48:27,840
he's visiting out in the area

2676
01:48:33,830 --> 01:48:31,679
and uh and doing some filming uh

2677
01:48:35,270 --> 01:48:33,840
yeah um that is that is the question

2678
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:35,280
that a lot of people have

2679
01:48:42,229 --> 01:48:39,119
said on or asked on this show is uh

2680
01:48:43,270 --> 01:48:42,239
you know why why whatever it is that's

2681
01:48:45,030 --> 01:48:43,280
flying

2682
01:48:47,030 --> 01:48:45,040
overhead why does it have lights you

2683
01:48:47,510 --> 01:48:47,040
know why why does does it want to be

2684
01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:47,520
seen

2685
01:48:50,790 --> 01:48:50,159
i think that's a really good question i

2686
01:48:54,470 --> 01:48:50,800
think

2687
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:54,480
you know if somebody just transferred or

2688
01:48:57,990 --> 01:48:56,159
different species transferred through

2689
01:48:59,030 --> 01:48:58,000
al-qaeda belt over the last billion

2690
01:49:00,790 --> 01:48:59,040
years

2691
01:49:02,629 --> 01:49:00,800
and all of a sudden they see us

2692
01:49:04,709 --> 01:49:02,639
developing

2693
01:49:06,870 --> 01:49:04,719
they may realize it's soon related

2694
01:49:10,070 --> 01:49:06,880
there's going to have to be a contact

2695
01:49:13,350 --> 01:49:10,080
and why not prepare us for it

2696
01:49:15,189 --> 01:49:13,360
slowly gradually

2697
01:49:17,990 --> 01:49:15,199
very interesting things in the solar

2698
01:49:20,870 --> 01:49:18,000
system that could be

2699
01:49:24,430 --> 01:49:20,880
maybe signs of artificiality there was a

2700
01:49:27,510 --> 01:49:24,440
moon of saturn called methone

2701
01:49:31,109 --> 01:49:27,520
m-e-t-h-o-n-e and look it up online

2702
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:31,119
it is maybe a couple of miles long

2703
01:49:35,510 --> 01:49:33,280
and it's perfectly egg-shaped and

2704
01:49:37,510 --> 01:49:35,520
completely smooth

2705
01:49:38,950 --> 01:49:37,520
people say it's that smooth because it's

2706
01:49:41,990 --> 01:49:38,960
close to the rings

2707
01:49:42,470 --> 01:49:42,000
i don't believe that maybe it is but of

2708
01:49:45,589 --> 01:49:42,480
course

2709
01:49:47,750 --> 01:49:45,599
maybe it isn't and when i mentioned

2710
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:47,760
my colleague les johnston at nasa

2711
01:49:50,870 --> 01:49:48,880
marshall

2712
01:49:52,790 --> 01:49:50,880
wanted to do a science fiction novel he

2713
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:52,800
said greg

2714
01:49:59,350 --> 01:49:56,639
name me as a an anomalous

2715
01:50:01,109 --> 01:49:59,360
uh object of the solar system and he

2716
01:50:03,910 --> 01:50:01,119
mentioned methoney and he

2717
01:50:05,270 --> 01:50:03,920
came up with a book called mission to

2718
01:50:08,310 --> 01:50:05,280
methoni

2719
01:50:10,229 --> 01:50:08,320
another one is the smaller

2720
01:50:11,870 --> 01:50:10,239
kuiper belt object that was visited by

2721
01:50:14,870 --> 01:50:11,880
new horizons called

2722
01:50:17,990 --> 01:50:14,880
mu69 now you may remember that

2723
01:50:21,030 --> 01:50:18,000
mu-69 of ultima thule initially

2724
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:21,040
initially looked like two

2725
01:50:24,149 --> 01:50:22,960
spherical objects that had joined

2726
01:50:26,470 --> 01:50:24,159
together

2727
01:50:27,669 --> 01:50:26,480
and the various models that people put

2728
01:50:29,830 --> 01:50:27,679
together that i've seen of the

2729
01:50:33,030 --> 01:50:29,840
planetologists they're good models

2730
01:50:35,109 --> 01:50:33,040
they can show you can have two spherical

2731
01:50:36,550 --> 01:50:35,119
icy objects coming together at low

2732
01:50:38,790 --> 01:50:36,560
velocity

2733
01:50:39,990 --> 01:50:38,800
but the later pictures show that they're

2734
01:50:42,470 --> 01:50:40,000
shaved off

2735
01:50:44,709 --> 01:50:42,480
on the bottom but they're not spheres

2736
01:50:48,149 --> 01:50:44,719
they're like partial spheres

2737
01:50:50,629 --> 01:50:48,159
so either something something saved them

2738
01:50:53,510 --> 01:50:50,639
to make them non-spherical beforehand

2739
01:50:55,189 --> 01:50:53,520
and then put them in such a position

2740
01:50:59,109 --> 01:50:55,199
that they would still

2741
01:51:01,830 --> 01:50:59,119
line up showing exactly the same way

2742
01:51:02,550 --> 01:51:01,840
or after they're lined up barely stuck

2743
01:51:04,149 --> 01:51:02,560
together

2744
01:51:06,149 --> 01:51:04,159
something came and shaved off their

2745
01:51:09,189 --> 01:51:06,159
bottoms but didn't

2746
01:51:11,910 --> 01:51:09,199
describe them to me that's an anomaly

2747
01:51:14,390 --> 01:51:11,920
i don't have regulation for it i don't i

2748
01:51:17,189 --> 01:51:14,400
haven't seen any real explanations

2749
01:51:18,070 --> 01:51:17,199
and i would say it's a strange one

2750
01:51:21,510 --> 01:51:18,080
whether

2751
01:51:24,790 --> 01:51:21,520
was done

2752
01:51:27,030 --> 01:51:24,800
for us another little thing saying

2753
01:51:27,910 --> 01:51:27,040
hey get them ready for it or maybe

2754
01:51:31,589 --> 01:51:27,920
there's another

2755
01:51:34,629 --> 01:51:31,599
natural physical mechanical explanation

2756
01:51:36,310 --> 01:51:34,639
that i can't think of i don't know right

2757
01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:36,320
right well we're you know we're getting

2758
01:51:39,109 --> 01:51:38,080
close to to being out of time i'm just

2759
01:51:42,950 --> 01:51:39,119
going to pop up your

2760
01:51:45,669 --> 01:51:42,960
your book here and uh so

2761
01:51:48,149 --> 01:51:45,679
stellar engineering i highly recommend

2762
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:48,159
it it's a book you're going to start and

2763
01:51:51,510 --> 01:51:49,760
not want to put down it's really

2764
01:51:54,149 --> 01:51:51,520
fascinating and uh

2765
01:51:54,870 --> 01:51:54,159
i've really enjoyed our talk very much

2766
01:51:58,390 --> 01:51:54,880
this evening

2767
01:52:00,390 --> 01:51:58,400
i did thank you yeah and uh so we'll

2768
01:52:01,990 --> 01:52:00,400
we'll talk soon and i hope you have

2769
01:52:03,430 --> 01:52:02,000
really good luck with this book and

2770
01:52:03,910 --> 01:52:03,440
remember you have to write one more to

2771
01:52:07,510 --> 01:52:03,920
get that

2772
01:52:10,550 --> 01:52:09,830
thank you very much have a great night

2773
01:52:13,030 --> 01:52:10,560
everybody

2774
01:52:13,910 --> 01:52:13,040
bye-bye all right take care bye-bye all

2775
01:52:16,310 --> 01:52:13,920
right everyone

2776
01:52:17,109 --> 01:52:16,320
so uh next week we have uh frank

2777
01:52:19,910 --> 01:52:17,119
fischino

2778
01:52:20,950 --> 01:52:19,920
talking about the flatwoods uh monster

2779
01:52:24,310 --> 01:52:20,960
incident a real

2780
01:52:25,510 --> 01:52:24,320
real uh unusual one there and i want to

2781
01:52:28,709 --> 01:52:25,520
thank everyone for